NEW Message Board- by ZOCCOZ

Discussion of other water gun websites.
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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:45 am

NiborDude wrote:Haha, naked girls pokes fun at Hasbro in so many ways... wait, no it doesn't. :rolleyes:

I think I'm the first when I say the only reason you've gone "R Rated" :eek: is to promote your forum, for like the 3rd or 4th time.

Aparently it doesn't to you. However, there is a little thing called "reading between the lines". Basicaly put, part of it is about the devaluation of the soaker image.

Image===>Image===>Image

From Terminator kid who kicks ass===> to skinny dork who probably gets lis lunch money stolen ===> to X-rated chick who personaly couldn't care less about soakers.
If people still don't see an ironic connection, then I can't help yeh.

As for using the R-Theme for promotion, why would I want to do such a thing. There is nothing more weird and unusual than promoting their own forum. Such a thing has never been done in online soakerdom, and I would not stand for such an abominative action! Now, I am off to trade in a cow for 5 beans.

[Edit]: Oh well, I might aswell spell it out. The teen in the middle is a little Bitch, and Hasbro's poster boy. Power isn't just about pressure in your soaker, but also attitude, physical presents and style(Terminator kid and and Blues Brother kids). In essense, max infusion kid is as tough and rugged as the chick on the right. If not even less, since the female model has more muscle mass. Hasbro's Super Soaker: A Product for Girly-Men. (There is also another word for "girly men" that would create a witty double meaning to the situation, but this afterall is not the R-Theme forum, so I leave it at that. :D )
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:39 pm

Well, if your forum change has done one thing, then it's boosted activity on this forum...

Yes - the Terminator theme was cool, but most kids that age should have never seen Terminator 1 or 2, or the blues brothers for that matter.

Who says that people that use soakers can't be tough/rugged? - I have huge muscle strength - in fact three days ago, I gave a piggy-back to someone who was giving a piggy back to someone else.

Your point is a bit blunt - why are you (allegedly) aiding the decline of soakers? That's what your posts seem to suggest to me with your arrows and pictures. This is what's happening.... so I'll decline it some more.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:26 pm

I admit I probably should have used an "=" between the max Infusion dork and R-Chick. But then again, its in the eye of the beholder. An arrow would say "it moves to that direction", while the "=" would say "that dude ain't manly."

What I am not suggesting is that everyone who carries a CPS2000 is a He-man, while everyone with a Flash flood is a wussy. However, images, and espcialy promotional images, are symbolic representatives. The Larimi line promoted a certain image of "Power and style". And that ideology influenced the soakers, and is reflected in the "Terminator kid".

In a matter of fact, the SS100 comercial that shows the Terminator kid(there were 2 SS100 comercials) was even suggesting an assasination typ attitude, since it had him practicing shooting on a photo of a neighbour enemy, shooting the photo off the wall after a few seconds. It wasn't just about fun, but about agressivly eliminating your enemy. While of course not politicaly correct and somewhat psyco for todays age, it was prity cool. It wanted you to buy the water gun and shoot everyone who pisses you off.(The 80s where even more combative with toy guns.)
The max infusion kid on the other hand looks like he is holding Sunny D juice. It doesn't realy look impressive or fires up people to annihilate their enemies. And it can not be denied that this "friendly attitude" is reflected in contemporary soakers.

Granted, some might say that the Psyco gun attitude from the 80s and early 90s is not health for kids. And with youth violence being lower now than in the past decades, todays societey goes into the right direction. Now having said that, being a kid from the 80s and early 90s, violent or agressive toys happen to be extremly cool and fun to me. And it was part of what made the 90s soakers so attractive.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:09 pm

joannaardway wrote:Your point is a bit blunt - why are you (allegedly) aiding the decline of soakers? That's what your posts seem to suggest to me with your arrows and pictures. This is what's happening.... so I'll decline it some more.
Excellent point...it's the truth in all its glory!

Are you suggesting that the SS 100 is better than the Max-D 5000? Then you're completely out of your mind. That aside, this entire thing is pointless. Not everybody prefers the look of the "classic" soakers over the more "modern" ones, and not everybody prefers the "Terminator" look over the "barely-clothed female" one. Actually, why would you even care and post images of such people if you didn't approve of them? Your argument seems really weak right now, and like NiborDude, I don't see how this pokes fun at Hasbro. (And more importantly, people just passing by your site won't understand the difference--though you've said you're not trying to change the common attitude towards soakers. That said, it could still foil attempts to actually change our society) Putting arrows between pictures doesn't really help either, because I don't see any relevance. Sorry if I've just offended you, but this whole "project" offends me.

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:54 pm

SilentGuy wrote:Excellent point...it's the truth in all its glory!

Are you suggesting that the SS 100 is better than the Max-D 5000?

Name me a soaker in 1991 and before, that was better than the SS100. Then name me a soaker in 2002 and before that was better than the Max-D 5000. Does that make it more clearer?

I think I already exlained the parody and also difference of ideals between the 90s and contemporary soakers. I can't make it any clearer than that.
Personaly, I can't see why people make a big fuss over it. Not that I would not apreaciate it, since it adds more airtime for the forum. But, bottom line is, to me the super soaker line is already in the crapper. The only thing is that no one has flushed it yet, and line still continues in retail. I just try to make it more entertaining for...well, me. This R-Concept is not about the soakerdom community, or future users. If that is who people want me to dedicate my time to, then sorry, not interested. People should not get offended if there is a soaker forum out there that does not revolve around them or their future in online soakerdom. It can't always be about them. And it definatly shouldn't always be about them. There is no larger purpose in the R-Theme in the bigger picture other than pure entertainment, including the criticism towards Hasbro's line. And if people are not entertaint, then they are free to click on something else.
This is what's happening.... so I'll decline it some more.

[Edit]= But what would be wrong about that? The current SS line is already in the crapper. Might aswell make it entertaining or simply add some new angles. At this point, I don't care where SS is going in the future with their new Toy safety and retail guide lines. And in case some say again "it doesn't make sense since if you want them to improve why would you... so and so on". Then you guys still don't get it. The SS line is beyond repair. I don't bother wanting them to improve since they won't go back to the 90s standards. They can't go back to the 90s standards due to economics. So you might aswell sit back, relax, and enjoy their poor quality of Habro's Super Soaker.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:58 am

And if you're suggesting that this is now entertainment, then I still have to disagree. Once again, if you're looking for real "entertainment," then there are better places to look in. Viewing such content is not something I do, and it's not something I would talk any more about, so I'll just leave my argument right there.

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:37 am

SilentGuy wrote:And if you're suggesting that this is now entertainment, then I still have to disagree. Once again, if you're looking for real "entertainment," then there are better places to look in. Viewing such content is not something I do, and it's not something I would talk any more about, so I'll just leave my argument right there.

I think some things are not that obvious yet. SO i have to elaborate. Does the R-Theme serve Soakerdom? Its not my concearn. Does the R-Theme hurt future users interest in soakers? Its not my concearn. Does the R-Theme entertain people other than me? Its not my concearn. There is a certain pattern here, if some can detect it. To be blunt, the R-Forum does not revolve around other's wishes. I am not a Soakerdom-Santa or a Squirtpistol-Geenie. I have nothing against other people, but lets be honest here, its the internet and everyone here is a faceless stranger to me who I don't have to cater to. Same things do other people think about me online. And thats how things should be.

Now I understand that this might not entertain others(especialy if they haven't even seen it :confused: ), but since it entertains me, it served its purpose. especialy once the R-Violence water fight comics start. Plus on a sidenote, with other members registering recently, I'm probably not the only one who is entertaint. While this is not entertainment for some, it is entertainment for others. And thats a simple fact and nothing to be upset or complain about. :D
If some don't like it, they don't have click on it. Its part of how the R-rated world works, no matter what media.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lucius Octavion
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Post by Lucius Octavion » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:47 am

This is a very interesting topic indeed. I can see both sides of the argument. I agree with Zoccoz in many ways, but I also think that there are better ways, or at least not in the fashion that is now, of portraying this viewpoint. See what I mean?
Guns in possession:

Speed Loader Double Cross 3000, 2 Speed Loader One Thousands, SS XP 110, Splashzooka, used to have more but they were unfixable.

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NiborDude
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Post by NiborDude » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:52 am

None of the crap you've said was thought up before you made your forum R Rated. You're just saying it in defense. And since all of this seems to amuse you, I guess I'll no longer post in this topic, and I suggest that everyone else does the same.

The End,

:)
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<span style='color:EEF2F7'>Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! -Leonardo Da Vinci

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:31 am

NiborDude wrote:None of the crap you've said was thought up before you made your forum R Rated. You're just saying it in defense.


My article about the evolution of WaterGuns(Pre-R theme), and my introduction and discussion of the "Classical concept" which is on the Super Soaker Classics website(pre-ZOCCOZ forum even), would suggest that me thinking that post-2003 soakers are wussie is something that was going around my head for a long time. Which means that your are pulling your accusation out of a puritan hat.
And whats with all the agression anyways? The R-Forums shows a few nipples, so big deal. No full monty, so the women are just as exposed as WWE wrestlers and UFC fighters. The R-Theme forum has never been done before, so why not try it out. And if "different" and "New" things upset people, then they should click away. :D

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:37 am

Ok, I really cannot see your reasoning.

Let's start with fact one: I am female in my late teens - these images show nothing that I don't know about.

But in general, placing something this unrealistic as "the path of soakerdom" is improper.

Ok, that's not to say I've never had water wars in swimwear. In fact for a soakfest, it's my preferable attire - as long as it's appropriate for the "audience" - T-shirts get unpleasant when soaked. And when having a 1HK water war, it's my preference to wear it under whatever other clothing for fairly obvious reasons.

This isn't an easy game for girls to get into - especially at my age. So in truth, I elect for it in almost every war, for my own benefit - not the males I am with.

I alone can truly know how hard it is for a female to be a dedicated water warrior, so I can understand how unrealistic those photos are in the great scheme of soakerdom.

Water war is not about this.

Let's assume one thing - if any person is on the SSC forums, then they are dedicated and realistic enough to realise that it's not about the women.

If they are on Zoccoz's forum, then the odds are that it's not about that.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:18 pm

joannaardway wrote:Ok, I really cannot see your reasoning.

Let's start with fact one: I am female in my late teens - these images show nothing that I don't know about.

But in general, placing something this unrealistic as "the path of soakerdom" is improper.

Ok, that's not to say I've never had water wars in swimwear. In fact for a soakfest, it's my preferable attire - as long as it's appropriate for the "audience" - T-shirts get unpleasant when soaked. And when having a 1HK water war, it's my preference to wear it under whatever other clothing for fairly obvious reasons.

This isn't an easy game for girls to get into - especially at my age. So in truth, I elect for it in almost every war, for my own benefit - not the males I am with.

I alone can truly know how hard it is for a female to be a dedicated water warrior, so I can understand how unrealistic those photos are in the great scheme of soakerdom.

Water war is not about this.

Let's assume one thing - if any person is on the SSC forums, then they are dedicated and realistic enough to realise that it's not about the women.

If they are on Zoccoz's forum, then the odds are that it's not about that.

I think you somewhat miss the point. Other than its entertainment forsome, this is not about "female water fighters", but the lack of agression and power in waterguns which is reflected in The Image of the Spokes Person. The Terminator Kid represented a toy line ideology that started with the Classics to the Monsters(high point at 1996, the a gradual but small decline till 2003). The Max-Infusion kid is carring on the flag from the Soaker Elite kid, (so a whole line of skinny dorky successors since 2004). The R-chick is just some Barbie typ gal who points out that she has the same agression and style as the max-infusion kid. This isn't about what soaker she is holding, or that she happens to be female. This is about that she is a non-athlete barbie typ female who is (or almost is) on equal terms with the "Ken" typ dude in the max infusion image.

Again, not focusing on female water fighters, not SS100vsMax-D5000, not trying to change Soakerdom, just pointing out that Max-Infusion kid is a Nancy boy resprsenting a retail age of low power, while at the same time I am using/experimenting with the R-Theme to entertain some folks in a dull soaker retail environment.

As for more productive ways, I have a site coming up that purely just deals with the soakers of the power age. That might inspire poeple not to buy contemporaries, or that might not. However while it also just mainly serves for my entertainment(since 90s soakers are my main interst), I am sure that alot of people who miss the old soakers might like it to. The R-Theme forum however, is simply meant to be a degenerative and controversial postmodern view on the present and future of soakerdom. People don't have to like it, especialy since postmodern sarcasm isn't popular, but its there. People are free to click on or click away.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:58 pm

Your argument isn't easy to follow - neither does it seem to be that well linked to the forum change....

Oh well.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:59 pm

joannaardway wrote:Your argument isn't easy to follow - neither does it seem to be that well linked to the forum change....

Oh well.

Well, the reasons for the forum change is not as strait forward as most people are used to. Thats why I mentioned its very Postmodern flavoured in its criticism. With that I mean, there is no goal, structure or point to it all, other than pointing out the absurdity of itself while reflecting the absurdity it criticises in the eye of the certain individual. The out of place seeming nudity for cheap entertainment coupled with its criticism in contemporary soakers adds a very degenerative flavour to the forum which simply sais

"Soakers in retail are crap and this will reflects the crap. No point in saving the crap since retail soakers don't matter at all in the bigger sense other than in your/his/hers head. So you might aswell enjoy the nonsense of it all. This is the correct flawed forum, for an aknowledged flawed age. Retail Soakers only use now, is to be downgraded to the cheapest entertainment. "

No desire for change since that would require a meaningfull purpose that does not exist in a world that would consider retail soakers an irrelevant and meaningless field. At least that would be the postmoderns view of it. Of course it requires an aquired taste, especialy if the future of soakerdom is NOT irrelevant to you. Then you are of course right to ignore and disagree. But that postmodern view still is there and for the sake of vararity in views on soakers it should be there. To me, its a fairly interesting angle to explore, and is my only realy honest take on contemporary and future retail soakers. My more optimistic view on soakers is in the past soaker models.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by joannaardway » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:33 pm

Why lower yourself to the level of reflecting the crap?

Or even as many of us are guilty of - looking back several years to the past of soaking.

We are living in the here and now.

Your forum is focusing on the female "water warrior" even if those warriors are wearing bikinis, and are being paid to have photos taken.

I'm sorry, but here you have the one regular female water warrior, and you're rather overlooking my views.

In truth, that's not the most favourable image of "female water warriors" to have broadcast worldwide - at least from my perspective.

EDIT/Final note: I dump what I would normally prefer to keep to myself over the topic, and it's overlooked. That's really not how I percieve you.
Last edited by joannaardway on Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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