My laptop

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C-A_99
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Re: My laptop

Post by C-A_99 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:50 pm

14" is for laptops, are you sure of what you're getting? Most monitors people get now are at least 19" and many are 21"-23" which provide a nice working space for your applications and widescreen high resolution for your games and movies. Though I suppose since you apparently went with a cheap graphics card, it won't matter for games very much. COD4's bare minimum requirements for it to run aren't very high. However, you won't be able to run it at a playable framerate with a very old graphics card.

Since I game regularly (I also use my monitor for my Xbox since we don't have an HDTV) and work in 3D applications, as well as run a lot of programs at a time, I won't settle for anything less than the nice new gaming rig I have now. (Specifically, I have a Phenom II X4 3.2ghz processor, Radeon 5770 1TB, and 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM.)

That said I haven't bothered with any other OS's, since I don't really do any networking nor programming, and despite Windows' instability, it has everything I need and the vast majority of the programs I use regularly won't run on any other OS.

Fredcompany
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Re: My laptop

Post by Fredcompany » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:53 pm

It's the exact graphics card from the minimum requirements for CoD.
The screen's only £10, so I can upgrade later. This one's really just to get the OS and stuff set up.

The only conditions I had for my computer were:
It had to be cheap (£20 for the motherboard+CPU+RAM, £10 for the screen)
It should be able to play CoD 4
I needed to be able to do my homework on it (ie Windows so I could get Word and PowerPoint)

I'll probably end up buying a better screen, processor and more RAM
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zeda.beta
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Re: My laptop

Post by zeda.beta » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:28 am

Yeah, upgrading is the best part of owning a pc. It is possible in laptops, just much more difficult.
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cantab
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Re: My laptop

Post by cantab » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:12 am

With that machine, however, I wouldn't bother upgrading. Essentially EVERYTHING, except for the physical case (and even arguably that, if it lacks front usb ports), is obsolete.
The only upgrade I'd say is remotely worthwhile for such an old PC would be getting a new hard drive (since you can carry that forward into a new machine, or repurpose the old computer as a server). But even there, you'd have to get an IDE drive which isn't as good performance-wise as a SATA one.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

Fredcompany
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Re: My laptop

Post by Fredcompany » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:13 pm

I will almost definitely end up replacing everything in the computer part by part, probably starting with the RAM and processor
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cantab
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Re: My laptop

Post by cantab » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:06 pm

Essentially, what I'm saying is you'll end up having to replace the motherboard, processor, and RAM all together. Unless you go with onboard graphics you'll probably need a new graphics card too. And you may well need a new power supply since the new mobo might want different connectors and a high-end graphics card definitely will. At that point, that's practically all the parts of your computer!
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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C-A_99
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Re: My laptop

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:06 pm

If your motherboard is so old that it doesn't have SATA, you definitely need a new computer. The motherboard determines how far a system can be upgraded and after a certain point, you can't do anything to it.

Laptops are just as easy to upgrade as desktops. The problem is, you can only swap hard drives, RAM, batteries, 1 disk drive, and that's about it. Processor, graphics, additional expansion cards, etc. can't be added onto or improved on laptops.

Nowadays, a PCIe 2.0 X16 is a must for any kind of gaming or 3D. AGP compatible cards nowadays are mostly overpriced garbage and you can only find good AGP cards for good prices on eBay. Since AGP can only work with one card at a time, that is why PCIe was developed and became standard and when a standard is established, the older standard is no longer regarded.

For PSU's, if your old PSU is powerful enough, it shouldn't need to be replaced since nowadays there are all sorts of adapters for SATA power connectors, PCIe, etc. However, this is rarely the case; usually your old computer's PSU is pretty weak, and it's better to get a new one. Not to mention, if you still need to use your old system you don't have to worry about not being able to because you took a part out for the newer computer.

When selecting a processor, you want to assess your budget then go for the processor with the best cores. Core speed comes first, then number of cores. For example, it's better to get a dual core Phenom II 3.2 or more GHz than a quad core Athlon II 2.00 GHz. For graphics, you want to spend at least as much on it as you do on the processor unless you rarely or never do anything 3D on the computer. If you spend a lot of time in 3D, then you'll want to spend more on the card than on the processor. (Unless you're doing a ton of 3D rendering.)

Fredcompany
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Re: My laptop

Post by Fredcompany » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:56 am

I found a gaming motherboard a triple core processor for about £150 in Maplin. Is this a reasonable price?

And maplin seems to prefer AMD processors to Intel ones. Are AMD processors better or cheaper or something?

EDIT: I can't seem to find that motherboard on the website though. Maybe it was specific to that store

EDIT 2: I found this on the website: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=404706
Last edited by Fredcompany on Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cantab
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Re: My laptop

Post by cantab » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:38 am

Be wary of bundles like that. The one you linked to is a rather old processor - it debuted November 2000. When it comes to AMD, make sure you get the Phenom II (or Athlon II) ones, which have a 3-digit number. The ones without the II moniker and with a 4-digit number are the older ones, and while you'll rarely see them stand-alone you'll often see bundles with them.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

Fredcompany
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Re: My laptop

Post by Fredcompany » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:26 am

Ok thanks Cantab
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Silence
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Re: My laptop

Post by Silence » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:31 am

Really people, if someone's happy with his or her computer, why criticize it? You certainly don't need SATA or PCI-Express to have a usable system.

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C-A_99
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Re: My laptop

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:58 am

Some of those older systems' processors are too slow for even basic tasks like web browsing. The Pentium 4 2.66ghz on my old system can't handle browsing very well and is pretty sluggish in that regard. PCIe is needed for anyone who plans to do any 3D or gaming. It's like having a pile of XP's and Max-D's vs. having access to CPS soakers; you need the CPS's for certain wars where high range and waterpower come to play. Likewise, if you're going to do anything on your computer, you'll need something that works. Of course, the primary matter is budget, but when selecting parts, the costs need to be balanced accordingly. (Which these days systems sold in stores are pretty unbalanced; they have fast processors and RAM but cheaper video cards which work for people who will never load a 3D application on their computer in a lifetime, but there's enough people into PC gaming for it to be a problem.)

Of course, if they're happy with their system, then it's all good. However, computers age, peoples' needs on computers change, and there will always come a point where someone needs a new system. That's when new parts need to be bought and when it's important to analyze the costs and choose parts accordingly isntead of wasting money on a board or system that lacks basic parts found in a modern computer like PCIe or SATA.

My "criticism" was directed at the fact that he's planning on gaming but doesn't have access to video cards that can do the job. I've been stuck on a very outdated desktop myself for years and gaming was pretty much impossible, while the 3D software I used would also run quite sluggishly. My motherboard's AGP slot was also only 4x which made the problems worse. It's like joining a normal water war with a squirt gun; you can't get anywhere with it.

The minimum specs stated are usually underpowered and will definitely slow down on any setting other than the lowest ones. Actually, cards below the minimum specs can usually still run the game, but will do so sluggishly and will seldom be even playable. The recommended specs however, should be enough to enjoy the game reasonably.

Anyway, AMD's tend to be more upgradable since they don't switch sockets as often so they may be a better choice for desktops. Intel has some lucrative options on the i5/i7 processors though, but the higher end i7's are very pricey. Supposedly, AMD processors and ATI cards pair best, along with Nvidia cards and Intel processors. I don't know how much of a difference there is so it may not even matter as Nvidia is currently a better choice for video cards. (Until ATI picks up the slack and fixes their crappy drivers and software; their cards are excellent but their software and support is bad right now.)

Anyway, when selecting new processors, most likely you'll want to go for a Phenom II instead of Athlon II. Having the newest/fastest core is generally more important than having more cores especially since most software right now is fairly restricted in utilizing more than one core.

But right now, before really selecting parts, you need to know three things: which parts you need (i.e. if you're going to reuse a monitor, case, whatever), your budget, and how the computer will be used. If you work with 3D and gaming, you'll need to spend at least as much on a video card as the processor, but if you only browse, edit video, photoshop, etc. and never plan on loading a 3D application, you may be able to get by even with very slow onboard graphics.
Last edited by C-A_99 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Re: My laptop

Post by Silence » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:25 am

I'm not sure how demanding Call of Duty 4 is. I do know that my computer (with an AGP card) runs Team Fortress 2 and other "older" games well enough. To fit your analogy, you can still have a fun water war if everyone's using XP's. :p

One reason I dislike Windows is that it seems to encourage people to install crud that slows down computers over time. I know, most old PCs run excruciatingly slow. But it's hard to imagine that they ran like that out of the box, or else they'd all have been returned.

Of course, Fred does show interest in upgrading his computer. Good luck and have fun! :)

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C-A_99
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Re: My laptop

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:03 am

I've keep my old system (Pentium 4, AGP4x mobo, radeon 9600pro 256mb (supports AGP8x but my crappy mobo only went up to 4) pretty well maintained and frequently went around killing any remotely bloaty software on a regular basis, and have done two reformats over the system's usage life. I guess I'll give it credit that none of the parts on it have ever malfunctioned nor required replacement, but it's been pretty slow. Slow enough that Counter-Strike Source was unplayable at the lowest settings and resolution. The system's speed hasn't changed that much over time, though websites getting heavier coding and the fact that I progressively worked with more and more on the computer as I got more proficient and efficient could've caused it to seem to slow down. (Nonetheless, working with numerous windows/tabs open is still faster even if everything runs slower individually; the key here is access, when I can simply click a taskbar icon or tab instead of clicking on a desktop shortcut or bookmark to open something.)

CoD4 is actually about as demanding as most Source games though it's capable of better quality on its higher end settings than said Source games. But as for minimum requirements, they're not much different. (Requires DirectX 9.0/Shader Model 2.0 support though for CoD4 you're best off with SM3.0 capability for things like the shiny Desert Eagle and many other applications.)

I should've used the phrase "bringing only a knife to a gunfight" as that's a much better analogy. Your point still stands; it's a fair fight if it's not a gunfight and everyone has a knife. There's an important difference between bringing only a knife to a gunfight vs. bringing a squirt gun to a water war, and that is that the knife can kill but the squirt gun can't soak.

But either way, my old desktop was the squirt gun and my new gaming rig is a colossus'd CPS 2500 with backpack and custom nozzle, when comparing their capabilities when online gaming. Of course, I'm still bottlenecked by my horribly slow internet connection (games are unplayable whenever anyone else is using the internet, even browsing causes problems and any downloading makes any game completely unplayable), but that's another issue entirely.

Disliking Windows because it seems to encourage people to install bloatware is like liking Linux because not a lot of bloatware is available to install on there. Though nowadays, as people become more computer literate, they are uninstalling bloatware and keeping their registries clean more often. New computers are usually shipped with lots of bloated software (like that awfully annoying and useless Norton trial) and people are removing them. (Or paying Geek Squad $100 to remove it for them if they're the kind of people who don't know how to use a mouse.)

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Re: My laptop

Post by Fredcompany » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:51 am

If my computer was a bit faster I'd use Linux running Wine to play CoD 4, but I think that would probably make it completely unplayable. I haven't even started up the computer yet, so I'll just see how it goes.

EDIT: According to mydellmini.com, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 is playable on its minimum settings on a Dell Mini 10v. I'll give it a try. Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 is playable on its maximum settings, but is it any good?

And are there any other games on here that you'd recommend (only blue and green ones)

EDIT 2: It runs brilliantly! The graphics don't actually need to be on the lowest settings - it can actually run with them on medium, but I put them on low for the sake of performance.
Last edited by Fredcompany on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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