WW Orca - Internals/Modifications
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
WW Orca - Internals/Modifications
Well, in the last hour (hey, I wanted to relax...I was bored, even though it's late), I opened the Orca. I'm just writing some things down before I forget. Hopefully I'll have pictures tomorrow, but you guys know my history of picture promises...
The Orca strikes me as a well-built blaster. Actually, all of BBT's guns do. Perhaps less than ten screws for a gun that's larger than my CPS 4100; and the CPS 4100 had maybe twenty or thirty screws. The center screw here was embedded deep in the wide body though, and I had to use a tiny flathead jeweler's screwdriver (you know those sets of 6 in the little cases) with a monkey wrench to get it out. The rest were fine though, some were a bit tight, but none were rusted since the gun is new and I've taken relatively good care of it.
The pump cap was easy enough to pry off.
Once all the screws and the pump cap were out, the top half of the shell neatly folded out; the electric wires were just the right length. I don't know what problems Duxburian had with the wires, maybe he wanted to move the two halves much farther apart.
One thing to note is that the electronic pressure gauge really is a pressure gauge; it's not a fill gauge, as is more common, at least with CPS water guns. A little blue tube comes off the central "barrel" tube and leads to a box that has wires also going in; I can only assume this is the pressure gauge. There's nothing that actually measures how much water has been used up or how full the PCs are. So all I can say is that the water gun must not really have too constant pressure after all for the pressure gauge to be able to detect the difference.
You know the four red decorative plastic "cables" that go over the front PC? They actually have notches at each end, and they neatly slide over either half of the water gun case. The pictures should explain in more detail. Pretty neat, and easy to remove.
To get the two red pieces on the other side, I had to remove the PCs from the case a little. There were three screws holding the PCs into the shell - solid design. Most water guns just stick everything in there. But not this one.
Once I lifted the PCs a little to remove the red pieces in the back, it was clear that that's where most of the weight was. The bottom of each PC (I think there are two individual PCs) comprises a massive stainless steel (I hope) circular frame. Large screws every quarter inch or half inch (?) around the perimeter hold the metal base to the rounded, plastic PC cover.
I'm willing to bet that's why BBT can't have more powerful PCs; the HydroPower system creates a lot of force pulling the rubber apart from the metal. If so many screws and a metal base are necessary for medium power, I can see why they don't want to go high power.
Tomorrow I'm going to open the PCs. If I ever see rubber sheeting, I'll be sure to get some, perhaps to modify this water gun. Not too heavy a mod, just a few extra layers of rubber.
I'm also going to see if I can't add a connection for a backpack reservoir. I'll check out the solar shower system Ben got a suggestion about, and I'll probably get one of those, if only for a different project. I'll measure the tubing diameter and add a hose barb with a ball valve to the bottom part of the Orca. Near the base of the pump tube, right in front of the grip, there's a perfect location, in front of all the check valves, to cut a hole and epoxy in a hose barb. I'd run the barb through the bottom of the handguard and out the back, but there are two screws in the way that I would have to omit. One screw is a possibility, but removing two might jeopardize the rigidity of the case.
I can definitely see why power is lacking for the larger nozzles. My recent nozzle theory was that as you increase nozzle size, the flow coefficient and the stream velocity increase until the nozzle becomes significantly larger to places in the internals. At that point, the flow coefficient is no longer limited by the nozzle, and the flow won't increase with larger nozzles; so the stream velocity will decrease. Unlike old-school CPS water guns, the Orca has miniscule internal tubing (perhaps so the ball valve at the front can be easily actuated by the trigger), so larger nozzles have terrible performance.
Speaking of which, I love the trigger system. No weak spring on the trigger itself, just one strong one on the valve. It's a ball valve like those in the Max-D series, so it has high but variable flow; but it doesn't have the poor Max-D trigger system, so it's reliable.
More info tomorrow.
The Orca strikes me as a well-built blaster. Actually, all of BBT's guns do. Perhaps less than ten screws for a gun that's larger than my CPS 4100; and the CPS 4100 had maybe twenty or thirty screws. The center screw here was embedded deep in the wide body though, and I had to use a tiny flathead jeweler's screwdriver (you know those sets of 6 in the little cases) with a monkey wrench to get it out. The rest were fine though, some were a bit tight, but none were rusted since the gun is new and I've taken relatively good care of it.
The pump cap was easy enough to pry off.
Once all the screws and the pump cap were out, the top half of the shell neatly folded out; the electric wires were just the right length. I don't know what problems Duxburian had with the wires, maybe he wanted to move the two halves much farther apart.
One thing to note is that the electronic pressure gauge really is a pressure gauge; it's not a fill gauge, as is more common, at least with CPS water guns. A little blue tube comes off the central "barrel" tube and leads to a box that has wires also going in; I can only assume this is the pressure gauge. There's nothing that actually measures how much water has been used up or how full the PCs are. So all I can say is that the water gun must not really have too constant pressure after all for the pressure gauge to be able to detect the difference.
You know the four red decorative plastic "cables" that go over the front PC? They actually have notches at each end, and they neatly slide over either half of the water gun case. The pictures should explain in more detail. Pretty neat, and easy to remove.
To get the two red pieces on the other side, I had to remove the PCs from the case a little. There were three screws holding the PCs into the shell - solid design. Most water guns just stick everything in there. But not this one.
Once I lifted the PCs a little to remove the red pieces in the back, it was clear that that's where most of the weight was. The bottom of each PC (I think there are two individual PCs) comprises a massive stainless steel (I hope) circular frame. Large screws every quarter inch or half inch (?) around the perimeter hold the metal base to the rounded, plastic PC cover.
I'm willing to bet that's why BBT can't have more powerful PCs; the HydroPower system creates a lot of force pulling the rubber apart from the metal. If so many screws and a metal base are necessary for medium power, I can see why they don't want to go high power.
Tomorrow I'm going to open the PCs. If I ever see rubber sheeting, I'll be sure to get some, perhaps to modify this water gun. Not too heavy a mod, just a few extra layers of rubber.
I'm also going to see if I can't add a connection for a backpack reservoir. I'll check out the solar shower system Ben got a suggestion about, and I'll probably get one of those, if only for a different project. I'll measure the tubing diameter and add a hose barb with a ball valve to the bottom part of the Orca. Near the base of the pump tube, right in front of the grip, there's a perfect location, in front of all the check valves, to cut a hole and epoxy in a hose barb. I'd run the barb through the bottom of the handguard and out the back, but there are two screws in the way that I would have to omit. One screw is a possibility, but removing two might jeopardize the rigidity of the case.
I can definitely see why power is lacking for the larger nozzles. My recent nozzle theory was that as you increase nozzle size, the flow coefficient and the stream velocity increase until the nozzle becomes significantly larger to places in the internals. At that point, the flow coefficient is no longer limited by the nozzle, and the flow won't increase with larger nozzles; so the stream velocity will decrease. Unlike old-school CPS water guns, the Orca has miniscule internal tubing (perhaps so the ball valve at the front can be easily actuated by the trigger), so larger nozzles have terrible performance.
Speaking of which, I love the trigger system. No weak spring on the trigger itself, just one strong one on the valve. It's a ball valve like those in the Max-D series, so it has high but variable flow; but it doesn't have the poor Max-D trigger system, so it's reliable.
More info tomorrow.
- isoaker_com
- Posts: 458
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Tomorrow hath come and gone; where be the pics?
Anyhow, thanks for sharing your experiences and descriptions of exploring the WW Orca's internals. Perhaps one day I, too, will venture into opening up the 'whale', but I want to complete my review tests (mostly range tests) on mine before I open it up just in case I do something silly.
Anyhow, thanks for sharing your experiences and descriptions of exploring the WW Orca's internals. Perhaps one day I, too, will venture into opening up the 'whale', but I want to complete my review tests (mostly range tests) on mine before I open it up just in case I do something silly.
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
Sorry for the delay...thanks for prodding me ! I finally got the pics, actually the first real pics I've obtained for anything water warfare-related.
I'm not very picture-savvy or -caring...thus, I chose the much older camera out of our two, and I couldn't figure out or bother stopping the flash. So the images are less than spectacular.
I'm uploading them into Photobucket at the moment, I'll edit them in after this post.
It took over an hour to unscrew everything holding the PC together - and I ruined the two center screws that were in there really, really tight. I'll probably have to use replacements for them - meaning a (convenient) trip to Lowes.
Oh, the PC frame is actually plastic, not metal. But it's very strong, and heavy.
I can't think of any way to reinforce the bladder. It's a specially molded 3/16"- or 1/4"-thick sheet of rubber, and there's no way to secure more layers of plain rubber. Plus, adding layers might interfere with the way the pieces of the PCs come together. 'Tis a major shame.
A couple days ago I did some more work with the internals, and I decided it would be easy to add a backpack. A simple hose barb in an ell-shape, glued onto the rearmost piece of plastic behind the pump, would stick down through the bottom of the gun in a convenient location. As I said before though, it can't be routed through the back due to the screw locations.
EDIT: Here are the pictures. I also forgot to mention I'm terrible at taking pictures, and I had no tripod, and I was balancing over the water gun so the pictures would be level. My hand must have been shaking like crazy.
EDIT: Hey, not half bad for using the flash! Guess it looks a ton better on a computer screen.
I'm not very picture-savvy or -caring...thus, I chose the much older camera out of our two, and I couldn't figure out or bother stopping the flash. So the images are less than spectacular.
I'm uploading them into Photobucket at the moment, I'll edit them in after this post.
It took over an hour to unscrew everything holding the PC together - and I ruined the two center screws that were in there really, really tight. I'll probably have to use replacements for them - meaning a (convenient) trip to Lowes.
Oh, the PC frame is actually plastic, not metal. But it's very strong, and heavy.
I can't think of any way to reinforce the bladder. It's a specially molded 3/16"- or 1/4"-thick sheet of rubber, and there's no way to secure more layers of plain rubber. Plus, adding layers might interfere with the way the pieces of the PCs come together. 'Tis a major shame.
A couple days ago I did some more work with the internals, and I decided it would be easy to add a backpack. A simple hose barb in an ell-shape, glued onto the rearmost piece of plastic behind the pump, would stick down through the bottom of the gun in a convenient location. As I said before though, it can't be routed through the back due to the screw locations.
EDIT: Here are the pictures. I also forgot to mention I'm terrible at taking pictures, and I had no tripod, and I was balancing over the water gun so the pictures would be level. My hand must have been shaking like crazy.
EDIT: Hey, not half bad for using the flash! Guess it looks a ton better on a computer screen.
Last edited by Silence on Sat May 12, 2007 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
- C-A_99
- Posts: 1502
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:09 pm
Very nice, thanks for getting the pics up. I got to say though, wonder what they were thinking when designing that, especially with how the PC's are done; just plain strange. Don't like the reservoir setup too much either; they could save a lot of tubing by positioning the opening below... (Like on CPS 1000's, 1200's, etc. What kind of rule says you have to have the gun to angle higher as water runs low?) And the trigger spring... Looks like the shape has a lot to do with how mine broke.
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
Thanks for the comment. Sorry the picture quality is so bad...I'll snap a few more if there are any requests. At least while the gun, including the PC, is open.
The amount of tubing used probably has little effect on the price. What's concerning is the electronics system. As you can see, the pressure gauge really is a pressure gauge, not a fill gauge - so it has to measure precisely the slight drop in pressure as you fire, and even then, it only has three readings. Too bad the original CPS systems are patented.
But I see what you're saying with the tubing. They could have routed the intake tube to the pump through the grip or somewhere.
The trigger system actually feels incredibly robust. You should be able to open the gun up and see with no problem - relatively few screws. My only suggestion to people looking to open/mod their Orcas is that you shouldn't bother to open the PCs, unless you want to waste a few hours screwing and unscrewing around. There's not much you can do with the Hydro Power system.
The amount of tubing used probably has little effect on the price. What's concerning is the electronics system. As you can see, the pressure gauge really is a pressure gauge, not a fill gauge - so it has to measure precisely the slight drop in pressure as you fire, and even then, it only has three readings. Too bad the original CPS systems are patented.
But I see what you're saying with the tubing. They could have routed the intake tube to the pump through the grip or somewhere.
The trigger system actually feels incredibly robust. You should be able to open the gun up and see with no problem - relatively few screws. My only suggestion to people looking to open/mod their Orcas is that you shouldn't bother to open the PCs, unless you want to waste a few hours screwing and unscrewing around. There's not much you can do with the Hydro Power system.
- C-A_99
- Posts: 1502
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:09 pm
I've seen Piranha internals, they use the same pressure gauge as the XP's, etc. However, they won't even need a pressure gauge if they use transparent PC cases, which would be so much simpler and practical. At the least, I don't like how they feel the need to use the electronics gimmick.
The Hydro Power systems are also a bit odd. Why does the rubber disk push on a flat disk with a hole in it, rather than a more cone shaped piece? Some of the piping inside is also pretty small, which is why the large streams aren't very good. Overall, if they just adjust their PC's, angle them towards the nozzle, and some other stuff, they could have guns nearly as good as CPS.
Speaking of CPS, it'd be nice if Hasbro actually used it (sphericals, more powerful cylindericals, etc.), rather than just hogging it and holding the patents just to keep BBT and/or other companies from making guns that are half decent. Seriously, they seem to be hysterical about letting anything better than a Blazer come back to the market. Either way, their attempts to keep decent water guns from the market are very obvious. Even if they don't intend to do that directly, I'm sure no one likes what they're doing anyway.
The Hydro Power systems are also a bit odd. Why does the rubber disk push on a flat disk with a hole in it, rather than a more cone shaped piece? Some of the piping inside is also pretty small, which is why the large streams aren't very good. Overall, if they just adjust their PC's, angle them towards the nozzle, and some other stuff, they could have guns nearly as good as CPS.
Speaking of CPS, it'd be nice if Hasbro actually used it (sphericals, more powerful cylindericals, etc.), rather than just hogging it and holding the patents just to keep BBT and/or other companies from making guns that are half decent. Seriously, they seem to be hysterical about letting anything better than a Blazer come back to the market. Either way, their attempts to keep decent water guns from the market are very obvious. Even if they don't intend to do that directly, I'm sure no one likes what they're doing anyway.
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
The angle and shape of the PCs doesn't make too much of a difference. There's still force (from the stretched rubber) being applied over an area (the sheet of rubber) to create pressure.
I'll agree that the tiny tubing is what limits the flow for the larger nozzles. I'm not sure whether they used such tubing so they could have an easy-to-turn ball valve or if they had another reason.
I also agree it's frustrating how Hasbro is just holding the patents and barely using them. However, that's how industry and the free market works...the good news, though, is that there was a recent patent lawsuit (I forget what it was) that kinda ignored precedent and suggested that it's the details and the actual design that can be patented, not the concept. Maybe Ben and his dad know more about this.
I'll agree that the tiny tubing is what limits the flow for the larger nozzles. I'm not sure whether they used such tubing so they could have an easy-to-turn ball valve or if they had another reason.
I also agree it's frustrating how Hasbro is just holding the patents and barely using them. However, that's how industry and the free market works...the good news, though, is that there was a recent patent lawsuit (I forget what it was) that kinda ignored precedent and suggested that it's the details and the actual design that can be patented, not the concept. Maybe Ben and his dad know more about this.
- isoaker_com
- Posts: 458
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Thanks for posting the pics! You need to cut down on your caffiene intake for some of them, though.
'tis always interesting to see how tubing and such are laid out. I suspect some of the less efficient aspects of the design are either due to making it easier to use identical parts between different models or somehow that it may simplify production on an assembly line. Then again, perhaps it's also just an oversight on BBT's part.
'tis always interesting to see how tubing and such are laid out. I suspect some of the less efficient aspects of the design are either due to making it easier to use identical parts between different models or somehow that it may simplify production on an assembly line. Then again, perhaps it's also just an oversight on BBT's part.
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
Okay, yesterday I went up to Lowes with my dad to get some stuff, and I also got a few pieces for this water gun. I got a pack of screws to replace the two middle screws in the PC assembly - I completely messed up the heads while trying to remove the screws because they were in there so firmly. I'm lucky I was able to remove the screws to open the PC and, more importantly, to replace the screws.
If anybody needs to replace their screws, get size 4 (diameter; it's in some scale that I don't know, perhaps in sixteenths of an inch) Phillips-head screws, I think 3/4" long. I have a pack of ten now, so perhaps I could mail a couple to anybody who needs them (they're cheap).
I also got a couple of hose barbs. They're 1/4" and 3/8" barbs, with 1/4" male threads. I got both because I haven't gotten a solar shower yet and I don't know what size will be the best fit for the solar shower's hose tube. I think I had 3/8" hose for my APH backpack (I hope it's not 1/2").
Anyway, back on topic...once I get a solar shower for the backpack, I'll take the appropriate plastic hose barb, cut off the threads to reveal a flat surface, drill a hole in the water gun tubing, and epoxy the barb on. I had originally planned to have either a hose barb with a miniature ball valve or a homemade pull valve in the hand guard, but both would require space. I also didn't see the ball valve hose barbs at Lowes, and a small pull valve would require smaller tubing and pieces that I'm feeling too lazy to build.
So this project is by no means over, although the plans aren't nearly so spectacular as what I wanted to do earlier. A PC upgrade is for all intents and purposes impossible. I might remove all the electronics and add a second barrel with a ball valve and threaded nozzle selector, but there's so little flow in the original tubing that this mod would be pointless.
Still, the water gun is great for a stock soaker. It's a little lacking in power, but it has range.
EDIT @ 6:15 PM: I have a bit of a dilemma with finding solar showers. Wal*Mart, KMart, Target, etc. don't carry them (even by other names, like "sun shower" or "bag shower") according to the site. Ace Hardware has one, but it's a 5-gallon one (I'm looking for something smaller), and for some reason there's no Ace Hardware in Charlottesville but there are plenty of stores in small towns nearby. Weird.
Perhaps I should just walk into Wal*Mart and see...
EDIT @ 6:20 PM: I forgot to mention that I put the PC back together. It took perhaps 15-20 minutes, a far cry from the maybe 90 minutes I spent taking it apart.
If anybody needs to replace their screws, get size 4 (diameter; it's in some scale that I don't know, perhaps in sixteenths of an inch) Phillips-head screws, I think 3/4" long. I have a pack of ten now, so perhaps I could mail a couple to anybody who needs them (they're cheap).
I also got a couple of hose barbs. They're 1/4" and 3/8" barbs, with 1/4" male threads. I got both because I haven't gotten a solar shower yet and I don't know what size will be the best fit for the solar shower's hose tube. I think I had 3/8" hose for my APH backpack (I hope it's not 1/2").
Anyway, back on topic...once I get a solar shower for the backpack, I'll take the appropriate plastic hose barb, cut off the threads to reveal a flat surface, drill a hole in the water gun tubing, and epoxy the barb on. I had originally planned to have either a hose barb with a miniature ball valve or a homemade pull valve in the hand guard, but both would require space. I also didn't see the ball valve hose barbs at Lowes, and a small pull valve would require smaller tubing and pieces that I'm feeling too lazy to build.
So this project is by no means over, although the plans aren't nearly so spectacular as what I wanted to do earlier. A PC upgrade is for all intents and purposes impossible. I might remove all the electronics and add a second barrel with a ball valve and threaded nozzle selector, but there's so little flow in the original tubing that this mod would be pointless.
Still, the water gun is great for a stock soaker. It's a little lacking in power, but it has range.
EDIT @ 6:15 PM: I have a bit of a dilemma with finding solar showers. Wal*Mart, KMart, Target, etc. don't carry them (even by other names, like "sun shower" or "bag shower") according to the site. Ace Hardware has one, but it's a 5-gallon one (I'm looking for something smaller), and for some reason there's no Ace Hardware in Charlottesville but there are plenty of stores in small towns nearby. Weird.
Perhaps I should just walk into Wal*Mart and see...
EDIT @ 6:20 PM: I forgot to mention that I put the PC back together. It took perhaps 15-20 minutes, a far cry from the maybe 90 minutes I spent taking it apart.
Last edited by Silence on Sat May 19, 2007 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- marrio90
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 11:37 pm
where can you buy the orca. If you have a web address i would like it. You can e-mail it to me also.
My guns are as follows:
CPS 2100
CPS lightning
My "wishlist" guns are
Water Warriros Orca
SUPER SOAKER AQUASHOCK ARCTIC BLAST
My guns are as follows:
CPS 2100
CPS lightning
My "wishlist" guns are
Water Warriros Orca
SUPER SOAKER AQUASHOCK ARCTIC BLAST
Last edited by marrio90 on Wed May 23, 2007 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
- Silence
- Posts: 3825
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm
Yesterday I had another small three-man water gun fight - 2HK elimination. Orca vs. various combinations of Blastmaster 660s and MD2Ks.
Then I had a one v. one soakfest using just the BM660s.
Anyway, the water war reminded me that my Orca had been leaking ever since I put it together. Usually after I pumped, dripping would occur for a while afterward.
So I'm going to have to open up the water gun sometime. And I have a mod in mind, but it's probably not going to happen.
Basically, you use a hole saw or something to drill a massive 7/8" (or preferably, 13/16", I think) hole in the backplate of the PCs. Then you can stick in 1/2" tubing, hose barbs and hose, a ball valve, and a nozzle selector. The ball valve would have a handle similar to that of the SS 300, but probably with a single vertical piece in the middle and a horizontal piece. Whatever works.
I had previous concluded that pressure isn't the problem with the Orca - it's the flow (I had posted about it, too). That explains the great performance with smaller streams but terrible performance with the largest one, while water guns like the CPS 2500 have similar velocity with all nozzles. So any way to bypass the tiny tubing and perhaps use a ball valve instead should certainly help.
Then I had a one v. one soakfest using just the BM660s.
Anyway, the water war reminded me that my Orca had been leaking ever since I put it together. Usually after I pumped, dripping would occur for a while afterward.
So I'm going to have to open up the water gun sometime. And I have a mod in mind, but it's probably not going to happen.
Basically, you use a hole saw or something to drill a massive 7/8" (or preferably, 13/16", I think) hole in the backplate of the PCs. Then you can stick in 1/2" tubing, hose barbs and hose, a ball valve, and a nozzle selector. The ball valve would have a handle similar to that of the SS 300, but probably with a single vertical piece in the middle and a horizontal piece. Whatever works.
I had previous concluded that pressure isn't the problem with the Orca - it's the flow (I had posted about it, too). That explains the great performance with smaller streams but terrible performance with the largest one, while water guns like the CPS 2500 have similar velocity with all nozzles. So any way to bypass the tiny tubing and perhaps use a ball valve instead should certainly help.
- C-A_99
- Posts: 1502
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:09 pm