CPS Turbine?

Threads about water gun modifications.
mr. dude
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CPS Turbine?

Post by mr. dude » Sat May 13, 2006 9:43 pm

Croc and I were modding a few of my guns today, including the EES Turbine, when I thought "is it possible to turn it into a CPS gun?". My idea is to place some LRT in the see through plastic thing that contains the spinning light-up turbine. So that requires me to cut off the wires and reposition the tubing.
I'll try to get pictures in.
So my questions are, would that perform better than a normal EES Turbine would? Would the pulse shot not work anymore? I already CVF'd it (clogged the hole in the pump with glue), so would the idea not work in the first place?

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CROC
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Post by CROC » Sat May 13, 2006 10:07 pm

mr. dude wrote:Croc and I were modding a few of my guns today, including the EES Turbine, when I thought "is it possible to turn it into a CPS gun?". My idea is to place some LRT in the see through plastic thing that contains the spinning light-up turbine. So that requires me to cut off the wires and reposition the tubing.
I'll try to get pictures in.
So my questions are, would that perform better than a normal EES Turbine would? Would the pulse shot not work anymore? I already CVF'd it (clogged the hole in the pump with glue), so would the idea not work in the first place?
I think we all know what a CVF is, and you should also consider this: CPS might not work in the gun, but a seperate reservoir would. I think that is what he is trying to get at, as I was helping him mod his guns (whether or not he can make it have a non pressirized resevoir with a seperate PC).
:cool:
-Croc
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sat May 13, 2006 10:47 pm

First of all, you should address the question: "Should one use a cylindrical CPS bladder or a spherical one?" Generally, spherical bladders are easier to put into non-CPS soakers, though it might be harder to get good performance out of them.

Of course, I'm not sure exactly what diameter-to-length ratio that tube you're referring to has, so I really don't have a clue. If it's long and narrow, use LRT; if it's less so, use balloons.

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Post by mr. dude » Sat May 13, 2006 10:52 pm

I think we all know what a CVF is
But not everyone knows a PR CVF.
Should one use a cylindrical CPS bladder or a spherical one?
The plastic bit is cylindrical so I'll probably stick with a cylindrical PC.
I'm not sure exactly what diameter-to-length ratio that tube you're referring to has
The width of the casing is around 3" and the length is around 4-5"

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sat May 13, 2006 11:06 pm

Thanks for addressing all the questions and comments...

I think, given the relatively simplicity of your CVF explanation, it doesn't matter that it refers to a PR CVF. After all, it sounds exactly like what one would do in a standard CVF.

That ratio isn't too terrible for use with a spherical CPS bladder. First of all, neither type of bladder could expand too much (especially the cylindrical type, though). I suggest simply cutting a hole somewhere to link this to the main reservoir, if possible, and maybe reinforcing the internals.

When is that picture you were hinting at going to come up? I don't know much about how the EES Turbine works, so I'd like to be more informed...

Does the water actually get shot out by a motor-driven turbine? If that is the case, then you could use this extra space to add batteries and/or an adaptor that increases the voltage, thus increasing the range and output.

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Post by SSCBen » Sun May 14, 2006 12:03 am

This whole idea breaks one of the basic concepts of modifications: bad water guns can't be made too much better.

While we're on the subject, why shouldn't we modify a Super Soaker 50 to be CPS? Why shouldn't we modify a squirt pistol to be CPS? The answer is because it simply won't be as good as a real CPS water gun.

Some modifications such as the Vaporizer modification which turns it into half homemade water gun and half modified Vaporizer don't really count because that's on the scale of reconstruction and not modification. That modification was really harder than any modification or homemade water gun I have ever completed, mainly due to the fact that I had to figure out ways to fit everything and attach the new parts.

So, the real question is whether or not modifying an EES Turbine could potentially work well. The answer sadly is no. The water gun is too small and doesn't have close to the internal diameter necessary for performance. I suppose that if you were dedicated enough, you could completely reconstruct the system to perform better, but you'd be much better off spending your time modifying another water gun or building a homemade water gun.

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Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

mr. dude
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Post by mr. dude » Sun May 14, 2006 12:37 am

When is that picture you were hinting at going to come up? I don't know much about how the EES Turbine works, so I'd like to be more informed...
I don't have access to a digital camera so I have to use my sister's, and she doesn't let me use it that often. I have yet to post pictures for a topic I started in March!
Does the water actually get shot out by a motor-driven turbine? If that is the case, then you could use this extra space to add batteries and/or an adaptor that increases the voltage, thus increasing the range and output.
All the batteries do is make lights and sounds, so no they have absolutely nothing to do with the actual performance of the gun.
The water gun is too small and doesn't have close to the internal diameter necessary for performance.
If I don't try CPS and I just give it an air pressure chamber, would it still not perform better? The only problem I see with air pressureis that the casing might not withstand the pressure.

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CROC
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Post by CROC » Sun May 14, 2006 12:50 am

it doesn't necessarily need to be an LRT chamber, it could just be balloons, held on by a few O-rings to keep in the pressure
-Croc
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun May 14, 2006 4:46 am

Ben, you have a point, but now that they have an EES Turbine, they might as well mod so that it isn't too bad :p . Of course, it might be a waste of time, money, and effort, but that is another story...

mr. dude, sorry if I was pressuring (not pressurizing :p ) you to get pics. I'm just slightly uninformed when it comes to EES, especially because people say it's pointless--it's low on my priority list, and now I'm interested. Sorry about that.

I suggested reinforcing the internals so that whatever you do for pressurizing that part doesn't break the gun.

CROC, how do you plan on using O-rings to seal a balloon CPS bladder? That seems complex and ineffective...just use a standard Jubilee clip. You'll also want to use a lot of small balloons if you are CPSing this, which is just a waste of time compared to APHing it.

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Post by mr. dude » Sun May 14, 2006 3:04 pm

After lots of thinking, I realized that unless I change the position of the pump completely, giving it an air pressure chamber won't change performance at all. The way I see it, pumping will get air into the reservoir, and when the water in the reservoir is pressurized, water will go into the PC until the trigger is pressed. With an air PC, the water is already pressurized so another chamber won't make a difference (I still can't fill it when the water is pressurized).
Hopefully I'll take the pictures today, but until then, SinlentGuy why don't you have a look at Isoaker's review:http://www.isoaker.com/Armoury/soaker_s ... eesturbine

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun May 14, 2006 7:25 pm

I'm sure you already knew this, but the water is not compressed; the air is. Your post is slightly confusing, maybe because you didn't know this...

I'm under the impression that there is no PC whatsoever because this is a PR weapon. You pressurize it by pumping in air, and expanding the reservoir--not a PC--you can put more water into it, which is never a bad thing. As long as you've done the CVF and definitely reinforcement, you can still generate enough pressure to move the extra water.

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CROC
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Post by CROC » Mon May 15, 2006 11:02 am

After lots of thinking, I realized that unless I change the position of the pump completely, giving it an air pressure chamber won't change performance at all.
It might, and if I help you to make it a seperate PC (I have the best idea but it's hard to explain), then it should work pretty well, if not better than the stock EES turbine, but it requires some of your old SS100.

It might, and if I help you to make it a seperate PC (I have the best idea but it's hard to explain), then it should work pretty well, if not better than the stock EES turbine, but it requires some of your old SS100.
SilenyGuy- I intend to make the o-ring idea work like so;
1.Put an o-ring on the part of the gun
2. Put the balloons on the o-ring
3. Put 2 more o-rings, or as many as needed to make the balloons stay on and not leak.
Last edited by CROC on Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged double post - please avoid double posting.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon May 15, 2006 8:33 pm

CROC wrote: It might, and if I help you to make it a seperate PC (I have the best idea but it's hard to explain), then it should work pretty well, if not better than the stock EES turbine, but it requires some of your old SS100.

It might, and if I help you to make it a seperate PC (I have the best idea but it's hard to explain), then it should work pretty well, if not better than the stock EES turbine, but it requires some of your old SS100.
SilenyGuy- I intend to make the o-ring idea work like so;
1.Put an o-ring on the part of the gun
2. Put the balloons on the o-ring
3. Put 2 more o-rings, or as many as needed to make the balloons stay on and not leak.
By the way, you repeated part of your last post, in case you didn't know. Woah..."quote" is a really strange word.

I can see how it would work, but the idea seems somewhat unneccessary. First of all, you can't beat the tight seal that you'd get from a Jubilee clip, and second, this seems like it would take a lot of excess space. Finally, you might as well go with the extremely effective method that everybody has been using so far.

(Hint: a diagram might help explain the idea if I haven't gotten the main point of the idea--there might be something that I've missed)
Last edited by Silence on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr. dude
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Post by mr. dude » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:05 pm

Sorry for the late reply, but do PR guns use check valves? I don't see why they should, because water leaving the reservoir won't be affected if it goes back in. I need to know this so that if I do proceed with the mod I know how many check valves to get.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:09 pm

Yes, PR guns do use check valves. The first check valve simply leads from the exterior of the gun to the pump, and the second check valve leads directly from the pump to the reservoir/PC. When you pump, you push air directly into the reservoir to create pressure, so when you open the reservoir cap, all the pressure is lost (and if your reservoir is almost, empty, you've got a lot more pumping to do to get the pressure back).

EDIT on 6/22/06: The Cricket, a tiny PR pistol, takes about 150 admittedly short pumps to completely pressurize an empty PC/reservoir. That should just give you an idea of how inefficient PR guns are in that sense, and how much you'd need to pump after opening the PC/reservoir without filling!
Last edited by Silence on Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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