2010s here?

General water gun discussion.
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VAJMH
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2010s here?

Post by VAJMH » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:29 am

http://www.hasbro.com/shop/browse/Super-Soaker/_/N-1rZ69/No-0?Ntk=All&Ntx=mode%25252Bmatchallpartial

This is Hasbro's store. I havent seen some of these "weapons" as they put it (yes, quotey quotey marks and all, what gives?) before, so I think this may be the 2010 line up. Prices seem lower, but the products mostly appear to suck. Soaker Wars seems to be their new gig, and to my investigations they all seem to be pretty crappy. Aesthetically, they're improving, looking more like serious waterguns.

Functionally.... eeeeh.

Let me put it this way. I see 4 goddamn variations of the Vaporizer. Out of 18 available guns. And then there are more that are pump action on ly too! They seem to have fixed the trigger issues of the MD lineup by getting rid of the trigger all together! In all there are 11 guns that feature only pump action. so just over 1/3 of their blasters are proper supersoakers.

I admit that the simpler models like the vaporizer are more durable, but so were the good old blasters of the 90s, and they didnt suck!

They did bring back some of the xp line, and the hydroblitz, flash flood and arctic shock, but thats a no brainer.

The only new thing I even remotely like is the Shot Blast model. True its only pump action, but it looks nice, and if they're truthful about its 25 foot range that might be a half decent gun. I'd like to see how that one works.
Personal Collection: Monster X, Monster XL, Helix, Triple Shot, Aquapack Devastator, Liquidator, Arctic Shock, Shot Blast, Splazhzooka
Super Soaker 20, 25, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100, 200, MDS, Bow & Arrow
XP 20, 35, 55, 70, 75, 85, 105, 110, 150, 175, 250, 270, 275, 310
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isoaker_com
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by isoaker_com » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:10 pm

Yup, those definitely appear to be what will be coming out for 2010!

Good find and thanks for sharing! Interesting designs...

...upon further inspection, only the smallest of those new designs have triggers? While looking slick, I'm not too sure about what to expect from their performance, particularly when being quoted at 25'.

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VAJMH
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by VAJMH » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:16 pm

Those tiny ones? Yeah they seem like they're just remodeled XP 215s. Its sad when one has to be glad to at least see a pressurized reservoir weapon coming out, but thats the best we can get.

Still, I have to say I really look forward to an isoaker review of the shot blast. With the general design I'd want to buy one, expecially if the shoulder stock adds to performance and distance.

I'm still really bothered by the focus on vaporizer based designs. They have the helix (arguably cool) and then they have the rattler, the original vaporizer, and then that hideous looking four way.... thing, I forget the name, but I'd give odds it won't work at all.
Personal Collection: Monster X, Monster XL, Helix, Triple Shot, Aquapack Devastator, Liquidator, Arctic Shock, Shot Blast, Splazhzooka
Super Soaker 20, 25, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100, 200, MDS, Bow & Arrow
XP 20, 35, 55, 70, 75, 85, 105, 110, 150, 175, 250, 270, 275, 310
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C-A_99
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:15 pm

Nice finds here.

Long post coming up. There's a bit of history of the new design style.

It looks like N-Strike and Super Soaker are getting mashed together now. The soaker wars shot blast almost resembles the M90 shotgun from Halo CE.

The N-Strike style has been pretty successful so it's no big surprise that they're trying to take the concept here. Their Nerf blasters seem to have suffered decline in moddability and performance in the last few years (primarily they're making nearly only spring guns now with inverse plungers, which reduce the modding potential considerably) though it's nothing compared to 2003's SS's.

There's another issue though. The "tactical sci-fi" design style works for Nerf because the internals do not demand much support, weight, and space. Water guns on the other hand, need large continuous areas and room for PC's and the pump, resulting in a necessity for a slightly different design style.

I also noticed that they seem to be using the N-Strike tactical rail, so you can mount that little longshot "scope" and go "sniping" with a little 35-ft range blaster. I don't mean to hijack this thread with Nerf discussion, but it's so relevant now when you sit back and look at their design philosophy. What's funny is that the soaker wars line looks like it's being geared towards the older audience (and dare I say it, many gamers including some Modern Warfare 2 fans). The whole spirit of water warfare in stock guns, though it died with Larami, is getting poked at again here with the soaker wars line trying to make it look like something else.

Basically, what I'm getting at here is that they're trying to make the guns look "cool" in a way that will appeal and sell to that big audience whom I presume many of which to be MW2 fans. (which is how the N-Strike line made it's appeal as well)

With that said, I'm very curious to how this new design philosophy will go (though I suppose we could see it coming with the HydroBlitz and Quick Blast). Will kids try to take their breech and clear tactical skills from the Xbox 360 and N-Strike to the backyard soakfests?

I don't mean to sound cynical nor ranting here; the market has stopped working for soakers designed towards our own little community's idea of water warfare long ago and we all recognize that. I'm just rambling what I'm observing out here and on the bright side, it's interesting to see a change. I personally still see the N-Strike styling as a gimmick, though it's a better one than ooze shooting or ice cores and it may sell better than those as well. High capacity, big nozzles, and powerful long range soaking blasts vs. stocks, tactical rails, foregrips, and sights mark a quite a contrast in design.

A shoulder stock won't do much to water guns other than added comfort. The action is so short range that stabalization of aiming is pointless,, and for some users, the stock may even inhibit mobility. Personally, I'd prefer having one (I prefer the style, design, and ergonomics of the military rifle design but that often doesn't work that well in water guns if you want any acceptable performance), but that space is usually taken up by the reservoir. (on the blasters I use anyway) The solution is to simply put the end padding part of a stock on the end of the reservoir.

Perhaps in the future this line may pick up with success by any strange circumstances. I'd think it's less likely due to the nature of water warfare and the general public's perception of it, but you never know... And any water gun line picking up success opens doors and opportunity which can be good for the community as well. (if even by the curious kid who hooks up the scope and wants to actually get ranges worth "sniping" with)

On second thought, I just put up a huge block of text to what's mostly just another new set of piston guns to fill the release of the new year. Perhaps there really is nothing to speculate on and we've yet to see what BBT has anyway.

I should pick up the XP215's next time I get the chance. They're a bit pricey though and have been that way for a while, and I still have plenty of concealable blasters around.
Last edited by C-A_99 on Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by isoaker_com » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:19 pm

Speaking of Nerf, if you look at the existing packaging shots from the new Super Soakers, they all also include the Nerf logo near the nozzles. I can only presume that Super Soakers are being designed now by the Nerf team to some degree.

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by cantab » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:10 pm

I'm liking the styling, oh yes I'm really liking the styling. But not much else.

Shot Blast - Big, but doesn't sound that powerful. Performance-wise I'm expecting typical piston pumper. Looks like a shotgun, which makes the stock a bit odd. But in this case it's useful; in my experience you can get a significant performance improvement from piston pumpers by bracing them against your shoulder.

(Aside: the benchmark for piston pumpers is I feel Total X-Streams 'The Blaster'. Packing a stream nearly as fat as a small CPS, and range not too much less in powerful hands. I've never used it in battle, but it should rival smaller pressurised guns for range and beat them on output.)

Rattler: A smaller piston pumper. I doubt it well perform any worse (or better) than the Shot Blast.

Hydro Fury - this is one I'll need to see physically. But I'm suspecting it's bigger than the XP 215, more like the XP 220. Still small. Nothing particularly new, but compact pressurised blasters will always be useful.

Bottle Blitz - a recoloured and very slightly restyled Bottle Shot. This more than anything else is telling I feel; to me it shows that the marketing department is in charge at the Super Soaker division.

Ranges all seem pessimistic. Piston pumpers are of course variable depending on user strength; an adult stands a good chance of getting more than 25 feet out of them I expect. But 16 feet on the Hydro Fury? I hope that's level; if it's angled, that's a truly appalling figure, a squirt gun could probably shoot further.

My best hope is that the "Big Four" in the range - HydroBlitz, Flash Flood, Arctic Blast, and Secret Strike - are still widely available. But I'm not optimistic, especially here in the UK (where I've never even SEEN a HydroBlitz, at all).

And maybe Water Warriors will be widely available too. Hasbro's marketing department seems to be ignoring power. But when kids with Super Soakers come up against kids with Water Warriors, we all know who should win.
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C-A_99
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by C-A_99 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:44 pm

Cantab's last sentence basically sums it up. I wouldn't put the Secret Strike in the same league as the FF and AB though.

But like I said, if the new styling increases sales and brings more attention to water warfare, all the better. Perhaps they'd be useful as zombie weapons for my infection gametype anyway.

Edit: The stock may be detatchable on the Shot Blast, seeing how they've been making them like that for a while. It looks very similar to the stock on the Nerf Raider (CS-35) and both are adjustable. http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/n-strike/shop/details.cfm?guid=99CD7195-19B9-F369-D920-F9D6FF83CA1C&product_id=25134&src=endeca
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by Specter » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:14 pm

To me the Hydro Fury looks like a redesigned Max-D 3000.
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by Spinner » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:50 pm

I find it curious, and possibly slightly dishonest, that they describe as "air-powered" blasters which are blatantly clearly pump-powered.
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VAJMH
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Re: 2010s here?

Post by VAJMH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:50 am

Well, ya see there, YOU breathe AIR, and you POWER the blaster, so, in a very roundabout way.... ya know......... air powered. I guess that's their rationale.

I'm glad I'm not alone on liking the styling of what, to be honest, might as well be one of those darned tubes you pull back and then fire in the pool. I agree that the shoulder stock, used as a brace, might increase the range on the shot blast, that was my theory with it and the reason I might buy one (also, styling!)

I was wondering if that was the same tactical rail as on the nerf guns. I own one of the vulcans and a firefly and I really love the things. If the nerf people are getting involved with the supersoaker I can totally get behind that.

I think the worst looking one is the sneak attack four way. I really think that could make the running for worst soaker of all time. I mean, at least the 85 was pressurized! It seems to basically be a play on the silly 85 design or the superior MDS design, but (if you can believe it) lacks the finesse of even the eightyfive, in that theres less control over where the water goes. How often do people fighting you in a water war stand at a right angle to you? You're kind of crappy if you let your opponents routinely flank you. Also, how many opponents stand "up to 20 feet away"? also, having a dial thing to determine the area you're going to shoot? Um, no thanks. With the MDS or 85 or any sensible soaker, you KNOW where you're firing. With this you spin a dial and hope its on the right setting, or the guy on your team standing beside you is going to be displeased. Also, what if you have to shift your aim while you're firing? You Cant. With pressurized soakers you can pump it to full and then control the aim. With this one you have to hold it in one hand and pull back the pump with the other. So I guess if you're firing at a right angle (for whatever stupid reason) and your opponent somehow ends up, ya know, somewhere not directly beside you, you'll have to turn the entire gun across your body in order to fire straight ahead. I really do project that the 4 way sneak attack will take the title of worst supersoaker ever.

The other thing that troubles me here is the blatant disparity between the real, good, and generally more expensive, supersoakers (and WW), and the 10 dollar crap models. Back in the day, the SS50 was considered a cheep model, yeah, but look at what that thing could do. The accuracy, range, power, all a lot better than these piston models. True, you can still find some decent stuff if you go high dollar, but for a kid just getting in to water guns, I don't see one of the piston guns being as much a thrill as we had growing up and trying out our first SS50 or 100, or harassing the kid with rich parents until he'd let you fire his cps.
Last edited by VAJMH on Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Personal Collection: Monster X, Monster XL, Helix, Triple Shot, Aquapack Devastator, Liquidator, Arctic Shock, Shot Blast, Splazhzooka
Super Soaker 20, 25, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100, 200, MDS, Bow & Arrow
XP 20, 35, 55, 70, 75, 85, 105, 110, 150, 175, 250, 270, 275, 310
CPS 1000, 1200, 1350(1-3-5), 1500, 2000, 2100, 2500, 2700, 3000, 4100

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by C-A_99 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:49 pm

I'd say the worst soaker ever would have to go to the arctic shock or perhaps one of the EES's, though it's much more difficult to decide than "best soaker ever".

I did mention earlier that given the styling of the new blasters, their rails are almost certainly the same as those on the N-Strike blasters. It doesn't make any sense to go with a different design than what they already have, and I also mentioned that the stock is probably detachable given the history of having them on N-Strike blasters. Even if for whatever reason it doesn't detach, it is adjustable as you can see in the pictures.

The "Nerf people", at least the Nerf internet community (NIC)'s involvement with super soakers goes as far as converting them to Nerf guns. The general public on the other hand, may likely get into both casually.

To me, using piston soakers is like having spring powered nerf blasters where you'd have to pull back and release manually to shoot instead of having a catch and trigger. It's inconvenient and difficult to aim with.

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by isoaker_com » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:37 pm

@VAJMH: I agree with rather pricey stock water guns these days, particularly with the Super Soaker: Soaker Wars Shot Blast retailing for $19.99 according to the site. That said, a Water Warriors Vindicator or Water Warriors Pulse Master also retail for $19.99 which perform quite well, IMO, for their price.

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by VAJMH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:18 pm

CA- I'm holding out til this four way deal comes out. I'd bet my CPS 2000 that this thing will at least make the running for the worst. I own an arctic shock and I have to say I don't mind it too much (aside from the trigger, friggin MDs). Unlike the arctic shock or even the EESes, this thing isnt even pressurized, and it looks like they took a Vaporizer and made it worse. If that isnt an achievement worthy of the worst soaker ever, I just don't know what is.

isoaker - I'm definately curious to see the water warriors line up, figure they gotta come out with it soon so SS doesnt get the jump on them.
Personal Collection: Monster X, Monster XL, Helix, Triple Shot, Aquapack Devastator, Liquidator, Arctic Shock, Shot Blast, Splazhzooka
Super Soaker 20, 25, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100, 200, MDS, Bow & Arrow
XP 20, 35, 55, 70, 75, 85, 105, 110, 150, 175, 250, 270, 275, 310
CPS 1000, 1200, 1350(1-3-5), 1500, 2000, 2100, 2500, 2700, 3000, 4100

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by C-A_99 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:55 pm

When I used the Arctic Shock for the first time, the only shock was how weak the stream was without pre-pumping the chamber. My friends were complaining that they couldn't get more than squirt gun range out of it (quite literally; it would shoot 7ft at most, and in this case I still don't blame them just because they didn't know that it has to be pumped up to full power or pre-charged with air in order to get any half-decent range out of it). Some of the EES's are not pressurized either, though I actually haven't seen how powerful they are and like most PR's, are probably more capable than AP's with seperate PC's that are tiny. (I'm guessing that the Overload/Secret Strike has similar problems with the Arctic Shock due to the tiny air chamber)

The Sneak Attack, from what I've heard, is actually one of the better piston blasters; better as in it's easier to get better range with. Sideways shooting may be a useless gimmick for most of us, but if the main nozzle works well, then it's amongst the better piston blasters.

That said, most piston blasters aren't very good for combat unless it's something like a mounted waterzooka mounted on a boat that you can power with both hands.

For the new SS's, there's really not much to complain about actually. They've been releasing blasters nearly on par with dollar store ones for the past few years, and I guess even the EES didn't go that low. If Hasbro continues, BBT should not have a hard time taking the top end of the market as they've already begun to. (and have only the Super Soaker name going against them) Perhaps I should pick up a Vindicator this year if it's re-released, or if they release something better I'll check that out. (Instead, I only got their lower end blasters from previous years; the Tiger Shark in particular though the TS is still potent against most air pressure blasters)

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Re: 2010s here?

Post by isoaker_com » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:26 pm

From some Hasbro marketing material I got my hands on:

Get ready to get soaked! This year, Hasbro is combining two of its powerhouse sports action brands, SUPER SOAKER and NERF, to deliver the ultimate in water battles. Combining the legacy of SUPER SOAKER and the excitement of NERF, new, specially designed water blasters are available in either red or blue so you and your friends can divide and conquer during team-play or enter a one-on-one challenge to test your individual skills. When you’re in the heat of battle, you need a high-performance water blaster that will have your back; drench your friends with the power of NERF SUPER SOAKER water blasters!


Things are making more sense (at least in terms of the already noted design similarity of the 2010 Super Soakers to the existing Nerf line).

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