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General water gun discussion.
Adhockeykid
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I am new

Post by Adhockeykid » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:04 pm

Hello. I am Adhockeykid. I am 11 and I live in New Jersey. I am new to water guns, but I have read a lot on this site before registering. I have no water guns, but a Triple Aggressor is being shipped to me. I am planning a water gun fight with my friends. Any suggestions?
Last edited by Adhockeykid on Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:08 pm

Hello, welcome to SSC. It's good to have you here.

Do you require suggestions concerning organizing the water fight? If not, more specific questions would be helpful, no offense--I could fill pages with random suggestions.

The "Water fights" subforum is a great place to start searching for information about actual fights and tactics. I can point out individual articles if you want, but it's always good to read as many articles at the main site and threads here at the forums to get general knowledge. Good luck with your soaking career.

Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:19 pm

uh, yeah. ive read most of the tactics and guides, but since we are getting the majority of our guns from target instead of guns from 4 years ago, what would be good stuff for each of these positions:

Tanker
Commander(me!)
Heavy Weapons Officer(HWO)
Sniper
Recon Officer
Escort

also, i am very fortunate to have an HWO who has 2 CPS 2000s!! :D

and about modding, most of the mods seem complicated or i don't get the point of them.
Last edited by Adhockeykid on Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DX
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Post by DX » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:40 pm

I would recommend splitting the 2000s between you and your HWO. Commanders should have the best weapon[s] available, since their job is quite critical.

You should look for Blazers, Flash Floods, and Piranhas, the best of the post-2002 guns. I would also recommend not wasting a man as an escort. Even the heaviest soldier does not need an escort, your whole team is technically an escort, so your HWO is covered as long as he/she stays with the group.

Teams have the most success when split according to a rank system rather than a position system. Positions are extremely limiting, while ranks allow any fighter to perform any task when it is needed. Of course, new teams tend to stick to the easier position-based roles, but if you can, I would give ranks a try instead. At least for one battle to see if it works for your team.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:41 pm

I will assume that only commercial soakers are being used, and homemades will thus be left out of the picture.

Tanker: Clearly, the tanker needs a backpack if he is to be lugging enough water around. I'd suggest a trash bag backpack, but the Max Infusion: Overload is a decent solution, too. The Aquapack Devastator has a smaller backpack, has less output, and experiences pump lag, so the Overload is just about the best choice for you.

I think it's a better idea to have everybody carry enough water, but give some people backpack soakers just in case. I suggest that you replace your Tanker with a couple of grunts who have backpacks--say, the Defender or even a Max Infusion: Flash Flood. Note that these two soakers can be used with the separate Aquapack (smaller than the Overload backpack, which is also compatible but only available with the Overload), but the Overload might be a better gun for both grunts and tankers.

Commander: You shouldn't need anything different from what the grunts/tankers get, and if you act smart and fight on the front lines, you shouldn't need extra range, either.

HWO: The CPS 2000. Remember, the HWO is basically just a grunt with a big gun--so have two different people use a CPS 2000 each, and a trashbag backpack modification might be suitable in this case. However, if you don't waste water, that shouldn't be a big problem.

Sniper: As I've said, the sniper is a hard class to replicate with soakers. You can use a powerful soaker such as the spare CPS 2000 in Canadia's arsenal, but the better option is to just build a homemade. There is no real alternative, and even though you still can't snipe with a homemade, you can fight all the time from 40-50 feet rather than from 30 feet.

Escort: I don't know what that's supposed to mean, and you shouldn't really need an escort. I don't see what separates the grunt from the escort, and I don't see the job and weaponry for an escort.

Grunt (all): To wrap up: Kryptons and Blazers make good primary soakers, and the Xenon is a smaller one for those who travel lighter or as a heavy backup. The Argon is an excellent backup (once PreCharged, of course). Although you should use Flash Floods and Defenders if you prefer them, I only suggest them used with an Aquapack; however, if you need that backpack, the Overload is far superior.

EDIT: It took me a while to write this, so I didn't see Duxburian's post. He pretty much gets all the key points, though your HWOs should have Argons, Storms, or other light backups just in case they get separated.

Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:01 am

ok. yes, i was gonna split the 2000s between me and my hwo, and about the other stuff, they're not super soakers(which is what were using). i was gonna give the tanker a backpack with about 15 water bottles, and the rest of us 2. what about the recon? hes small and loves sabotage and being sneaky. i was gonna say give the sniper an arctic shock and tape on a plastic rod for a scope. any more suggestions?
EDIT: I'll change to ranks, they'll all start at private and move up to sergeant, lieutenant, major, and ill stay at general.
the only problem is that i will only be in 1-2 fights before i go to camp.
"It's either you pass and live, or fail and die."
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:07 am

No offense, but you're going way overboard with this...

First of all, you can't expect one guy to carry the extra water for everybody else, unless he is the only one with a backpack. If you split the load between all the members of the team, everybody only needs to carry 4-5 water bottles, and they don't have to stick next to the (slow) tanker all the time.

I must have overlooked the recon officer...and that's another thing that's hard to do in a water war. In real life, recon guys stay practically out of sight (that is, very far away) of enemies and sneaks around, radioing and gathering information and planning strikes. None of that happens in water wars, and you'll be lucky if you're not seen at 25 yards. Also there really is nothing for a recon officer to do in a water war unless he "assassinates" somebody by being only 10 yards away, in which case he'll definitely be seen.

You can't equip a sniper with anything except a gun that shoots 2 yards farther than a standard one, tops. Its stream won't have enough velocity for accuracy, and its arch will severely impede accuracy as well--and rendering a "scope" useless.

Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 am

then can you make a basic layou of what my team should look like? it is all very confusing to me now.
"It's either you pass and live, or fail and die."
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:59 am

First of all, Duxburian has much more battle experience than I do, so trust his word over mine if there is conflict.

I, personally, do not see the need for specialization in a water war--although organization is fine and often necessary to win. Superior knowledge of tactics and orderly/unified execution of maneuvers are important in winning, and the general strategy is more important than the finer details. For example, while fighting, keep the HWOs/heavy grunts in the middle and use the other troops to flank the enemy; and use your snipers/long-range grunts to engage the enemy early and knock out a few rather than to take potshots from extreme distances.

The arming of your troops depends on what weapons you have in your arsenal? How many members do you have? How many will you have to equip?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Grunt---------------------------------------------------Grunt
Krypton-------------------------------------------------Blazer
Storm 500-------Sniper--------------------------------Argon
------------------Max-D 6000--------------------------------
-------------------------------------------Commander-------
---------------------------HWO-----------CPS 2000---------
---------------------------CPS 2000------Max-D 5000------
---------------------------Xenon-----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------

This is a very crude diagram, and I suggest you ignore it completely. Your "formation" needs to be flexible, and most of all, you must make the appropriate changes when you must. Even though I used the specialized names, everybody acts like a grunt--for example, the sniper is aggressively positioned just to hit the opponents before they can retaliate, and the HWO/Commander should act just like a standard grunt, even though they have more powerful soakers (remember, even a tiny splat of water is a kill in 1HK, so the output isn't that important). Also, the formation is very spread out and flexible, not like what I drew.

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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:34 am

I need to update my old specialization article, it is more than 2 years out of date. Real-time tactical theory replaces the need for all other strategies. I never make a plan when I go into a battle, I use tactical theory based on real time enemy actions to formulate instant plans.

To make things easier to understand, I will ditch tactical theory for a second to suggest guns for "positions":

[Hypothetical/educated guess arsenal, you haven't posted the actual yet :p ]

Commander/Grunt/Sniper [I would combine the roles]: Blazer

Sniper/Recon [I would combine the roles]: CPS 2000

HWO/Tanker [I would combine the roles]: CPS 2000, Xenon

Grunts: Everything else

Now, back to tactical theory. Contrary to conventional practices, you should arm your sniper with the longest range gun possible no matter what, even if it means a heavier one. This would be one of the CPS 2000s. The ~55ft range pwns the other guns that you are likely to face. Put that into the hands of a fast, stealthy person and you've got quite a threat. A recon and/or a sniper should never leave sight distance of at least one of your other teammates. Something my team learned the hard way in our 2nd battle of 2004.

Your commander and HWO should NOT act like standard grunts. They should be up at the very front, the most aggressive out of everyone, having the best guns to support such action. You should also not assign flanking to only certain troops. Rotate the task around the team and keep the enemy from getting used to one type of weaponry. The more fluid your team is, and the more unconventional you act, the higher your chances of victory. Another thing to do is to swap guns randomly several times during a single war. This not only gives everyone experience with different guns at different positions, but it gets the enemy confused. Different people have different fighting styles, and the random swapping of guns forces the enemy to adjust again and again. Before you know it, you have them reacting to you, which is a clear indicator that you have the initiative and the psychological advantage.

Hope that was more helpful than confusing... :rolleyes:
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Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:54 am

this is what i have in mind now that ive heard those:

commander-cps 2000
HWO-cps 2000??
Sniper-cps 2000??
grunt-?
grunt-?
grunt-?

also, i can only find the following guns where ill get them(i just got my 1 triple aggressor in the mail and the other guns my friends have are a mystery):
helix
vaporizer
flash flood
arctic shock
devastator
-aquapack-
Last edited by Adhockeykid on Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:24 pm

I now agree with much of what Duxburian says, partly because of his experience. However, the Blazer does not have enough range to be of use to a sniper--a CPS is the best, and a Max-D or Krypton is also reasonable. However, as he said, give the sniper a CPS 2000 if you can afford to.

The guns you said you can buy have a couple of decent ones, including the Flash Flood with an Aquapack and the Aquapack Devastator. However, keep on looking--you just might strike gold.

Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:34 pm

where and what? and whts all this max-d and stuff? i wiped out my original plan to make way for your ideas.
"It's either you pass and live, or fail and die."
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laboye
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Post by laboye » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:38 am

Well, there are several series of guns; one of them is called "Max-D" for Maximum Distance.
I reviewed this thread and most of the info is good. I highly suggest giving your HWO and sniper the CPS 2000s. Commander can use the Flash Flood with the Aquapack for the extra storage, the water burst 'dealy' uses a lot of water. For recon, I think the Arctic Shock would do well. For prolonged battles, be sure he/she carries extra ice to compensate for a molten ice core. The Helix, Devastator and Vaporizer can be used for the grunts.

Adhockeykid
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Post by Adhockeykid » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:40 pm

well, i did want the cps 2000, but okay.ill give it to my sniper. here's my new plan:

Commander:Triple Aggressor(it just got delivered) or Flash Flood
HWO:CPS 2000
Sniper:CPS 2000
Recon:Arctic Shock
Grunt:Vaporizer
Grunt :D evastator

i listened to laboye because he was the only one who made a full plan with easily accessible guns. also, why did you originally give me the cps but now the sniper? and my friend has like four guns that are actually splashzookas, and he claims they are broken, but ill see what the problem is. maybe you guys can help me with repairs. also, can someone explain the most simple way to make a good homemade?
Last edited by Adhockeykid on Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It's either you pass and live, or fail and die."
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