CPS 2000s and Monster XLs

General water gun discussion.
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joannaardway
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CPS 2000s and Monster XLs

Post by joannaardway » Sun May 14, 2006 5:04 pm

This post has been edited. It is almost a direct port of the Buy/sell one. However, I need to keep the post simple to aid in explaining these soakers to n00bs.

It is hard to miss that most new users on this forum that turn up asking for water guns tend to ask for either:

A CPS 2000
Or
A Monster XL.

To avoid having to give the same response everytime, I'm putting this topic here in the hope that some new users may spot it.

a) A CPS 2000

This is because it is the "most powerful" water gun. Perhaps. It is a very powerful stock watergun, but it can be outclasses.

Most people could build a homemade with more range and power than a CPS 2000. And the odds are that it will cost a far amount less, given that CPS 2000s can go for hundreds of dollars.

A homemade could also have a nozzle selector, and more than the 1 second of shot time that the CPS 2000 has.

If you want to ask about homemades, you are almost certainly at the right site. Head to the "new users" area and ask away. If you say you've read this, I'm sure we'll be impressed.

b) A monster XL

This is because it is the "biggest" water gun. Fair enough, it holds the world record for it.

However, size doesn't necessarily mean power. Given it's size, the Monster XL isn't very powerful.

Many of you will have trouble lifting one of these. It weighs more empty than most of the CPS line do when FULL (exception made for the backpacks and 2700).

I don't know exactly, but I guess that there may be a better choice of soaker for you - ask something based on the following (probably in the new users forum):

"I want a watergun than can do xxx/has xxx. Can any one recommend something that I can buy for around $xxx?. I am prepared to (delete as applicable) do some work to get a bit more if I need it/use Ebay/buy from another member/go to my local store"

A final point:

BOTH OF THESE SOAKERS ARE IN HIGH DEMAND. YOU ARE UNLIKELY TO GET ONE BY ASKING ON THESE FORUMS.

Someone else has already asked for them - you are not the first. I could link to some of them to show you.

People on these forums know what these weapons are worth. They are going to go for the high end prices if they want to sell, and in truth, will probably want to keep theirs.

If you find it offered in the "Offered" section (what are the odds?) then yes, ask about it (but not if the topic is dead - in other words if it's a few months old or has clearly been sold.)

Your best bet is probably to lurk on Ebay if you have to have one of those particular soakers.

Search for misspelt terms or poorly listed soakers - these will get less hits, and therefore will go for less. At the worst, use Ebay's sections and get down to "Water guns" and search however many hundreds of listings there are. The odds are that you will find something that normal search terms will miss.
Last edited by joannaardway on Sat May 20, 2006 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun May 14, 2006 6:36 pm

And now I must add my own 2 cents...

Don't think I disapprove of all CPS soakers, because the CPS 1500/1700, 2100, and a few others are actually very decent soakers--especially once they are modded. However, I only have access to one CPS gun, the CPS 4100, as I found that as overstock in a Target last year. After hearing all the hype about CPS, nobody, including I, can resist wanting one; yet I couldn't have a good one or an arsenal of them, so I was "forced" to use homemades instead. And I'm quite thankful for that!

Homemades are superior to commercial weaponry (even CPS soakers) in many ways: (1) they are usually cheaper and always have greater value (performance/price); (2) they are more flexible with the design, especially allowing one to use a greater reservoir or in a PCgH, allowing one to change the pressure and battle practicality; (3) they have greater PC capacity; (4) they have much greater PC pressure, which leads to vastly superior range and even output; (5) they can have nozzle assemblies that allow for greater flexibility, range, and lamination; and so it goes on. Then you get into the world of WBLs and the more recent ITWCs, and then you really know that nobody with a stock soaker can challenge you.

joannaardway, do want me to post links to several thread that wax poetic about the pros of homemades? I know the PCgH thread, for one, does that...

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Post by Hannibal » Sun May 14, 2006 10:20 pm

a) A CPS 2000

This is because it is the "most powerful" water gun. Erm... no, it really isn't.

It is completely within the capacity of almost everyone to build a homemade with more range and power than a CPS 2000. And the odds are that it will be far, far cheaper.

It could also have a nozzle selector, and more than 1 second of shot time.


Erm... no. I'm not aware of most homemades shooting 55-60 feet. Only a modded CPS gets that kind of range. The CPS 2000 was made ten years ago. It is was most powerful retail water gun ever, and it still is. Many (such as I) do not really feel capable or wish to make a homemade. Granted, I'm sure I could figure out how to make one. But I don't wish to at this time.

Clearly the 2000 could have had improvements. But it was the first CPS ever. The 2500, which replaced it, had those improvements, and some report their 2500's to go 50 feet and beyond.

My 2000 is extremely effective against all opposition, including the CPS 3200, MXL, and 1700. I don't fight modded soakers or homemades. But my 2000 is very nice. $200 is crazy. But I wouldn't regret paying $100 for how good my 2000 is.

And I like my Monster XL. The Monster XL is overrated, granted. It could have been as good as 2 CPS 2000's. But mine can still go against 1500's and the like.

And do you have either of these weapons? I have both.

I agree that most in these forums would not want to give up their guns. I got my 2000 as a cheap buy-it-now, before anyone noticed. And I got my Monster XL off-season.
EV Nova: - http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/
"A CPS 2000 10th anniversary edition! I'll buy two, one to keep, and one to use!" *Takes 'em home, opens one, fills it, and pumps it up.* -"snap!"- "A Max-D trigger!""

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Sun May 14, 2006 11:20 pm

I am curious, what is the distance on a homemade with a 20X or 30X nozzle? After comparing my K-Modd guns to my CPS 2000s, I noticed that k-Mods(not including PC swapped k-Mods since I have not tested them yet) are not realy more powerfull since they get the same feel of power and distance with 12X, while the CPS2000 gets 22X. Has anyone tried here a K-Modded soaker with a 20X nozzle output? I would be curious of its distance. But even then, is there still enough space left to shoot 600ml, since all those balloons tend to reduce the PC capacity.

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DX
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Post by DX » Sun May 14, 2006 11:30 pm

K-modded soakers cannot handle streams of over 20x very well. Range is what you would expect of a riot blast nozzle. In comparison, good homemades can get a 60x stream into the low 40s, although the stream often breaks up a lot. Simply put, modded guns > homemades in relation to the size/power ratio. Homemades > modded guns in performance possible, range possible, output possible, etc. Out of all the tech guns, I am willing to place money on water cannons as the farthest shooting in relation to their output sizes. I'm projecting 70-90ft and 60-80x for the ITWC, but we shall see when it is actually tested.
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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Sun May 14, 2006 11:43 pm

I'm not aware of most homemades shooting 55-60 feet. Only a modded CPS gets that kind of range.


I don't know if you missed the past two years of homemade water guns, but to put it bluntly, homemade water guns always have shot further than modified water guns. The only people who really claim to get distance better from modified water guns are the SoakerMedia folks.

I could get over 55 feet with a normal APH two years ago. One year ago I could get over 60 feet easily with a CPS homemade water gun and only two layers of LRT. Now we're working towards 70 feet.

As for the riot blast's distance, I could get well over 35 feet with about a 50X shot.

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Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

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DX
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Post by DX » Sun May 14, 2006 11:53 pm

I no longer say that modded guns can shoot further, since I know why none of my homemades thus far can shoot better than 55. The pcs are small, since I hate backpacks, and big pcs guzzle all the reservoir water too quickly. The N00b Killer was a step in the direction of a larger homemade, and when fixed, it should have better range than my past homemades.

But now we also have quite a few water launchers, which have potential for ranges surpassing other types of homemades to date. While they can't be used as primary guns, they are without a doubt the most useful sidearms.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon May 15, 2006 12:17 am

@ Hannibal: The CPS 2000 might have practical uses, but there's still no excuse for a newbie (not neccessarily a n00b) to come to these forums and scream out that he or she wants one. I'm even more surprised that you support the Monster XL; it's inferior mainly due to its mobility, or the lack thereof. Clearly, the people you play against don't use your mobility disadvantage against you, or you would be against the Monster XL and justify that opinion by saying you have one. Both weapons are severly outclassed by homemades, which can easily get 55-60 feet of range (here, we can ask if you have any of these weapons and use this against you--ha!) and 50X streams, and the SSC forums are used as a grounds for homemades proponents.

@ ZOCCOZ: The range boost is obvious (maybe 50% greater), but it's hard to notice the extra output of K-modded weapons against that of stock CPS weapons due to the fact that the stream is of the same width. However, the velocity is vastly increased, which explains the range and can justify the apparent output boost. I'd say one gets twice as much output after a K-mod, but that's just speculation. Technically, you could measure how much time it takes to empty a K-modded PC and compare that to a stock PC, but I'm not the one who's going to do that...

Don't expect your CPS cannons with 12X nozzles to vastly outperform a CPS 2000 (with a nozzle at least 22X)--that is no small feat. However, this also justifies my 2X output estimate, and with a CPS 20K, one could expect at least 40X. That's not too bad, but going back on topic, it still can't beat the range of a homemade and that output figure isn't much on the relatively long-distance riot blast from a homemade. Of course, price is another important factor.

EDIT: I took a while to edit this post, so I didn't see Duxburian's comment. Indeed, you can't find any WBLs or ITWCs commercially built, can you?
Last edited by Silence on Mon May 15, 2006 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DX
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Post by DX » Mon May 15, 2006 12:25 am

There is no such thing as a CPS 20K, since a 2000 cannot be k-modded.

The range, as I have learned, really depends on the size of the homemade's pc[s]. Bigger is better if you want more range. Modded guns have their limits. Homemades do not. I've apparently hit the modded gun "range ceiling" but have not come anywhere near that with homemades yet.

Currently, my main gun is still a CPS 2500, since the range is fine at 50ft and it lasts longer than any of my other guns. If I could make a homemade with better range, output, and capacity, while still being equally battle practical, I would switch primaries gladly. I have yet to come up with a design that does not compromise range and capacity for practicality however. [Help would be appreciated though]
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon May 15, 2006 12:37 am

I'm sorry, I thought I could say "20K" and refer to a colossused CPS 2000, as the colossus is the cylindrical-PC equivalent of the K-mod. Oh well...

Well, for battle practicality, you can't beat a CPS weapon or a PCg weapon--and the same goes for homemades. In the PCgH thread, I started off by waxing poetic about the pluses of PCgHs, but I'm starting to see that much of those advantages are found in, sometimes to a greater extent, all CPHs. For example, while PCgHs help minimize dropoff of both range and output, CPHs exhibit absolutely no dropoff at all.

I can see the view Ben once professed, that people really need to start building more CPHs--they're really not that hard to build, they are less complex and cheaper due to the lack of reducers, and the results are outstanding compared to that of APHs (I probably missed a few points, too). Maybe the problem is that people actually have to order the LRT, but they don't have to order simple PVC.

Then again, PCgHs are very battle practical, too, and they have at least one feature that CPHs don't have: they are highly flexible. While standard LRT yields a constant pressure of 100 PSI, maybe more with LRT and bike tubing colossusing, you can PreCharge a PCgH to 200 PSI (getting somewhat close to the standard PVC limit), assuming you have a dual- or even a triple-stage pump, and you'll be able to achieve superb range and output even after 1 pump; and you'll have very little dropoff (250 PSI to 200 PSI). Of course, this is a very extreme example, and both PCgHs and CPHs are battle-practical. There's no need to build an APH ever again!

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Oh My God!!!

Post by kirbs » Tue May 16, 2006 2:07 am

I'm new to this forum, and just read the above. Holy crap. Let me elaborate.
In the past few days there have been some stupid kids with water guns/balloons at my high school reeking havoc. So today I decide to combat this terror with my own water power. I recalled by gigantic supersoaker from when I was six, ah it was a powerful huge grey and purple gun. I search around my house and it was no where to be found. I come to the conclusion that I must have given it to Good Will (not certain yet). So I search the Internet in hope of finding a similar gun and find this forum. I click on this page and not knowing what a cps 2000 was I search it in google. To my astonishment I see my favorite super soaker from when I was six years old, If only I had known its value and importance in super soaker history. WWWWWWHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY???????? There are still a few places in my house I have not yet searched, but I'm almost positive it's gone forever.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue May 16, 2006 2:47 am

Welcome to SSC. Hopefully, you can more than make up for your CPS 2000 by using homemades (why did somebody give you a CPS 2000 when you were only six?)!

I doubt you'll find your soaker, but if you ever do, that's great. I know we used to have at least some larger wars on my street about five years ago, and now that I remember, I think some people had XP 310s, and there was this family that had a gun that they said was actually inferior (it wasn't) due to its weight. It was actually pretty small, but it was probably CPS--maybe a CPS 1000 or something. They've stopped fighting long ago, so maybe I can get it...

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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Tue May 16, 2006 3:45 am

SilentGuy wrote:
@ ZOCCOZ: The range boost is obvious (maybe 50% greater), but it's hard to notice the extra output of K-modded weapons against that of stock CPS weapons due to the fact that the stream is of the same width. However, the velocity is vastly increased, which explains the range and can justify the apparent output boost. I'd say one gets twice as much output after a K-mod, but that's just speculation. Technically, you could measure how much time it takes to empty a K-modded PC and compare that to a stock PC, but I'm not the one who's going to do that...



My question was mainly just on how K-modded soakers would perform with a 20X output. I already measured my CPS 10K's output when I did the Range Test #1 thread. Its was 11x-12X. So as you expected, double of a stock soaker. And the k-modded shot time is 1 second with 10 pumps. So pumps are half, PC size is about half, output per second is double, while distance is almost double.
Visually, the k-modded stream does look more jucier than on a stock soaker I would say.

kirbs
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Post by kirbs » Tue May 16, 2006 3:49 am

To answer your question of why I received a Cps 2000 when I was six would be because it was 1996 and the thought of a water gun hurting someone was not even thought of. The gun had just been released at that time and it was my birthday so I asked for one and got it. I discovered its power when i pumped it up (with both hands) and shot my 16 year old brother with it. It left a huge red mark on his chest for a couple days. Anywho, it might be stored at our lake place, but I will will have to decline on the cps 1000 offer (but thanks anyway). In my rummaging for the Cps 2000 I found a few of my old water guns from the mid to late 90's. I really doubt they will inflict much damage on my targets though (150-180+ lb highschool boys). I was contemplating buying a Cps 2000 off ebay, but school ends in three days, oh well.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Tue May 16, 2006 9:40 am

Wow, heated debate.

I had really expected that this could sit quietly and be read by only a few newcomers.

My sole intent was to try and prevent a constant hail of requests for CPS 2000s and Monster XLs.

Both are overrated by n00bs, so with a topic like this, I could just post a link, and hopefully give them advice without having to type it everytime.

I wouldn't say no to either, but I wouldn't pay the current prices for them.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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