2006 water guns

[Crashdummy]

Lol, if anyone thinks soakers are going to get betting they are in denial. Thank god for them being in denial too, because that is one less person I have to bid against on eBay. XD

[joannaardway]

I feel that points about modding and homemades should not really be brought in - Many people do not have the capacity/ability to mod or build a homemade and are limited to the use of a stock soaker.

Anyway, if you mod a poor soaker, it won't be as good as good soaker which has been modded. Mods have a certain limit without completely re-building it - My hydroblade mods have been limited to re-enforcement and CVFing - and possibly in the future a de-max-Ding. The new max-D trigger mechanisms are much harder to mod, and with the new soakers there is less space to fit in extra parts.

The new weapons are limited to CVFs, re-enforcement, nozzle drilling, and maybe some more for the CPS types - there is little room for invention (I make exception for some of them)
Any more mods this will not improve many new soakers, or are excessively complicated. It seems that Hasbro is wising up to the mod community and cutting down on moddable parts.

Alright, some weapons can take so many mods that it's hard to know where the limit is. The old soakers are highly moddable, and I welcome that.

But the new weapons aren't up to standard and are harder to mod to bring up to standard, particularly given that many of the mods have less effect than in the past.

[SSCBen]

I think those statements about homemade water guns and water gun modifications were brought in mainly to "recruit" new people for the burgeoning water gun technology movement. Needless to say, that is out of the line of discussion. It also is slightly unethical as far as I am concerned, as is usual with hidden motives.

[DX]

If that was aimed in my direction there are
A: No "hidden motives" and
B: It was a response in the flow of discussion.

[m15399]

Recruit? What would be the point of recruiting people hundreds of miles away into the tech area? I was making a few suggestions, but recruiting people would be pointless... I might try to recruit my freinds, though.

[SSCBen]

It probably was a little controversial for me to say that, but that is essentially what I believe is occurring. I was speaking in general, not directly at anyone. "Recruit" was an exaggeration. The goal is to convince people that water gun technology is the way to go.

I don't really have too much of a problem with it, but some people get offended by it (Wild Boys, LA, etc.), so I thought it might be best to say something about it. Sorry if I inadvertently offended anyone by it.

[isoaker_com]

Threads on modern soakers still go this route. I still recall posts back in 1996 complaining that the CPS2000 had a lot of power, but not enough shot time. Ok, so the current crop is a far, FAR cry from the CPS soakers of yesteryear. However, the reasons for the change are much more than simply companies trying to 'fool' the public and reap huge profits. If that were the case, there would never have been the likes of the CPS-series in the first case and we'd still be looking at re-colours of the SS-50 and SS-100, perhaps sold with a few extra bottles and funkier styling.

As well, the blame definitely doesn't just lay on the manufacturers, but actually in some ways more on the retailers. If stores aren't willing to sell large soakers, it doesn't matter if a company chooses to make them since they wouldn't be available in stores! The power some stores have over what can and cannot be marketed is incredible.

For there to be better soakers, both retailers and manufacturers have to feel that there is enough demand to warrant it. Sadly, the online communities just doesn't carry enough weight. Unless there's a larger public epiphany and increased desire by many to want bigger, harder-hitting soakers, there's just not enough reason to make them from a seller's point of view.

However, in the end, it's still about fun. Thing is, many, including myself, can still have a lot of fun with the current lesser-powered soakers. They may not hit as hard as some of the older models, but that, in turn, just changes the game dynamics. I almost see this is similar to those playing table tennis to real tennis. The scales are different, but because of that, it changes game dynamics. However, to say one is more fun because the ball hits harder would be missing the point.

Farther, harder hitting soakers are things I'd like to see as an option in the future. However, so long as soakers are fun to use with my friends, I enjoy what is here as well. In the end, what makes a good soaker? Range? Output? Nozzle size? Reservoir capacity? Styling?

It's none of the above. A good soaker is a soaker that people enjoy using with others. 'nuff said

[m15399]

I agree with iSoaker that it is fun to just shoot eachother with soakers. That's what I usually do in water wars. I'm fine with the way soakers are going. EES was about the limit of gimickness, but as long as no one is severely overpowered, water wars are always fun! If you don't like the way thing are (most of the online community), build homemades or mod. If you're fine with the current soakers, great! I like building homemades because it's fun to do and fun to shoot them, not because I want to dominate my freinds.

[DX]

I am deeply saddened that "hardcore" water wars continue to trend toward dying out completely. Even the most basic 1HK and organized wars are starting to fade out. 2006 is likely the last season for the RM and Waterbridge, as in 2007 we depart for our various colleges. I am afraid that hardcore wars may be lost forever if no teams rise to take our place. Right now, I cannot name a single active team [other than the ones here] which uses advanced tactics and conducts itself in a serious, organized war-like manner. If such wars fade out, Duxburian very well may vanish with them. For showdowns of the intellect and power on huge battlefields are what keeps me going. That is also the driving factor behind promoting Tech at every opportunity. Hopefully I can make a difference by getting others interested in powerful guns and maybe keep hardcore water warfare alive.

If others have fun with any soaker in casual soakfests, that is perfectly fine. But I will fight to stop hardcore war from dying, and that includes everything we find fun in this last bastion of hope.

[m15399]

See, I want to try that, but none of my freinds are into that stuff. Maybe when we're a little older.

[Hannibal]

I think 1HK wars would be really cool. I wish I had organized wars like Duxburian. But everyone I know isn't really into soakers, just into the casual water fight. I know three guys, two who have 1200's and one who has a 3000, as well as lots of others who like soakers and could borrow one of mine. I would love to do some more hardcore stuff. But it involves getting more people than just me interested.

[isoaker_com]

I am deeply saddened that "hardcore" water wars continue to trend toward dying out completely. Even the most basic 1HK and organized wars are starting to fade out. ...Hopefully I can make a difference by getting others interested in powerful guns and maybe keep hardcore water warfare alive.

If others have fun with any soaker in casual soakfests, that is perfectly fine. But I will fight to stop hardcore war from dying, and that includes everything we find fun in this last bastion of hope.

Ok, I feel like I missed making a major point of the 'fun'-element of my post. To preserve the 'hardcore' element, IMO, one needs to first have a good, stable population of general enthusiasts. As enthusiasts start wanting more from water fights, then that's when the demand for more powerful soakers from a larger group will begin. However, to just throw the uninitiated into the 'hardcore' realm is, IMO, asking too much.

What I see is that the sheer number of complaints floating about the community makes it almost seem like water fights in any form are just not worth it anymore. That sort of sentiment is counter-productive to the true goals of the communities. I'm all for supporting those who want to push the limits of water warfare, but not at the expense of the fun soakfests or casual soaker users. There are many levels fun can be had. Push for more, but there's nothing wrong for those who enjoy what's available, too.

I just feel that the negativity in the communities is, in itself, adding to the problem of reduced soaking interests and, in turn, reducing likelihood of properly developing the 'hardcore' aspect of soaking.

[joannaardway]

My complaints aren't about how hard the soakers hit.

The soaker downgrades limit capacity and range - if you are 40 ft from the target when soaking them instead of 25 ft, then they are less likely to see you hiding. Less capacity means that you have to head to the tap more often, increasing the chances of an ambush there.

The new soakers don't match up to the old ones - which means that if a kid buys one of the new ones and matches up against someone who has managed to maintain one of the older ones, then they will "lose" and will be put off soakers. In truth, the water gun industry is killing itself.

And with a brief nod to the output - older users/buyers like to see larger output on soakers - many people aren't entertained by the 2x stream and want a 10x stream.

[m15399]

I suspect that it has mostly to due with getting hit in water fights. In most water battles, it's very easy to hit someone as they try to take aim at you (you just point it upwards a bit and spray everywhere). In that case, 1HK would be pointless. If you were playing at longer range, it wouldn't be so easy to see your opponent before it's too late.

[isoaker_com]

A common occurrence in such threads is to put forth scenarios with some users having access to older, more powerful soakers, versus those without such access. I'd like to propose a different scenario: one involving people with access to soakers manufactured in the past two years. With this limitation on soaker availability, would it be unreasonable to think that it's possible to still have a decent organized water fight though, admittedly, being forced into closer ranges?

Manufacturers, in the end, are interested in profits. For one reason or another, it appears that there is more profit to be made with the current average soaker than with the larger soakers of yester-year. Considering tighter consumer budgets for things like soakers, it's not so surprising to see only the cheaper soakers being made. People likely prefer saving up for the next iPod than wanting to put down another $30 or $40 to buy a larger soaker. There is a current magic number supposedly hovering at the $20 USD mark which is the current average consumer spending cap on soakers.

Would I like to see harder, farther hitting stock soakers? Of course! I still, however, stand by the belief that general interest in soaking needs to be increased and that it can be done even with the lesser-powered current soaker crop. One doesn't teach someone to drive starting off in a Ferrari. New-comers should first see how to maximize fun with the stock soakers, then be shown the benefits of soakers with even more output and range. Otherwise, the community will just end up burying itself.

"New stock soakers suck; only older soakers were good."
"Older soakers are harder and harder to come by."
"No point in having lousy wars with current soakers. Don't even bother starting."
"No more old soakers, new soakers don't compare to the old ones, therefore no point in having water fights anymore."
[end game]

(and while those who build their own soakers are, in part, exempt from the power/output limit, homemades cannot be thought of as a viable general solution to the reduced stock soaker power. The average consumer does not have the time or desire to gather the knowledge and build their own homemade soaker, even in the simplest forms.)

In the end, though, I understand the soaker community's frustration. I can only state my fear that the negativity pushed forth ends up only deterring others from even considering participating.