Sac American River "syringe" type water gun built, pics coming..

Homemade water gun threads that are notable.
qckfrze
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Sac American River "syringe" type water gun built, pics coming..

Post by qckfrze » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:27 pm

All,

I've managed to replicate the syringe-type water gun that several peeps have seen while rafting on teh American River in Sacramento, CA. Peeps have also had trouble finding schematics or pics of this gun. I'll post pics when I get home that show details on the piston itself, etc.

Cheers!

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:08 pm

Sounds interesting, at least. You're the fourth Stream Machine-related member since I joined SSC; the first two joined at pretty much the same time, and there's another active right now! Strange...

In the meantime, how is the performance? Is it better than the performance of commercial versions?
Last edited by Silence on Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

qckfrze
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Post by qckfrze » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:11 pm

The goals were:

1. large "bullet" of water
2. Not necessarily range, but there's a nozzle that can be switched out.
3. ease of use in an unstable raft. Can be also used standing w/ attachments.

qckfrze
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Post by qckfrze » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:52 am

Doh, all pics are too large. Anyone kno where i can post or host them?

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:24 pm

View this thread for more information on uploading files: http://forums.sscentral.org/t3747/

If you don't want to mess with the picture uploading websites, email me your pictures at ben at sscentral.org. I can host them. ;)

ben@sscentral.org / Please read this before emailing or PMing me

Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

qckfrze
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Post by qckfrze » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:47 pm

Pics have been sent to Ben, 5 total, showing the overall gun, two-tube design, piston head seal, and c-clip piston retention thing. The gun with teh switchable nozzle has been sent. The second one with a fixed nozzle (using a 2" PVC end cap) still need a handle, will send later if anyone needs it.

Thanks to Ben for hosting the pics!!!

:D

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:47 pm

Here's the images sent in:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

ben@sscentral.org / Please read this before emailing or PMing me

Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:04 pm

Wow, that looks really good. What type of glue did you use? I noticed some marks on the pump shaft near the pump handle...

It looks like it uses a 3/4" or maybe even a 1" pump, which is good. You might want to put a red mark near the plunger on the pump shaft to show others using the water gun when to stop pulling out on the pump, or it will pop out completely.

qckfrze
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Post by qckfrze » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:38 am

So here's some details:

Outer pipe is a 2" PVC, inner is a 1 1/4" PVC. We chose 1 1/4" because the cap for 1 1/4" fits nearly perfectly inside the 2" PVC with little wiggle room.

The entire thing is cemented together with just regular PVC cement, available near the PVC pipes. The pink grease you see is Dow 33, simply because I have a huge tube of it. The inside of the 2" pipe is coated with silicone lube.

The little groove you see at the end of the 2" pipe is a c-clip retention system. Hence, no "red mark" is required for the user. Once the 1.25" piston is in the main tube with the o-ring in, a c-clip is inserted. The c-clip is a thin piece cut from extra 2" pvc that has a section removed. The c-clip itself is about 0.25" section. The groove cut into the 2" pvc is used to hold the c-clip in place.

The c-clip essentally blocks the piston from being removed from the outer pipe. It also provides some additionally benefits in that it is serviceable. If you pull the piston out hard enough or use a tool, the c-clip can be removed. Then the oring can be lubed or replaced (if cut), the piston re-inserted, and the c-clip replaced.

As for the handle, you can go wild. I originally used a 1.25" tee, which could take short sections of pvc on the sides to use as a brace, etc. You could also just use the tee itself as a brace.

The top is a female/male converter to allow a 2" plug to be screwed in. A hole is drilled at the top for the nozzle. Nozzles can be switched out on the fly if needed (bigger hole for short range, smaller for long range).

One thing to watch out for is that if the nozzle is removed, the piston head cap can go above teh point where the converter meets the pipe, allowing the oring to pass out of the 2" PVC. This is fixed by pretty much just pulling the 2" PVC up while holding the inner piston (we assume you remembered to grease or lube the piston :-D ).

So it's main advantages are that:
1. nozzle switching
2. c-clip retention makes it field serviceable
3. bracing the tee against your waist or leg allows for more pressure
4. o-ring system makes an airtight seal to prevent air from being drawn in from the back of the piston.

FYI, on the river today, one of the c-clips flew out during a water battle. I had a few extra c-clips on me, and the gun was fixed in 30 seconds and good as new.

qckfrze
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Post by qckfrze » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:50 am

Some things to improve on are:

1. Handle was a little unweildy when drawing water from the river. Hand cramps happened after a couple hour's use. It make be better to make some sort of square handle with 4 90* elbows, and some sort sections of pvc. Mebbe 1" makes it easier.

2. Nozzles are a huge factor in the kind of shot you'll get. Holes should be drilled from the inside, and then made smooth. Something to try would be to make a sprial nozzle to keep the water together.

3. Another gun was made with a permanent 2" plug with a hole drilled. This gave more range in that the nozzle was a little dome, rather than a converter cemented on. But this became permanent. My theory is that the less turbulence the water experiences as it moved from the tube out the nozzle, the better. Hence, the plug worked a little better than the nozzle, even if there wasn't an option to switch it out.

Dremel is an extremely valuable tool to have, in addition to a sawzall and a drill w/ a hole drill (it looks like a cone with ridges, makes holes certain sizes)

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:20 pm

Sounds great. You should definitely check out the Streams article at SSC--and I would link to it if I could find it. A replacement one was being written and was far more thorough, but the original is also good.

I'd never have expected that this would be effective with a 2" bore--but perhaps that's what the Stream Machine has.

I'm wondering if it's better to use a male adapter and MIPT plugs for the nozzles as you and I do, or if it is better to use a female adapter and FIPT endcaps. You're absolutely right in that laminar streams are very important; and this type of water gun is just about the best there is for "linear flow."

So far I have found that you can do pretty much anything with one of those metal saws that uses a flexible strip of metal as the blade, held between the handle; but I don't know what it's called. I suppose a hole saw could help in some situations, but most of the time, a standard drill would probably be better.

Anyway, congratulations on the design! It appears extremely well thought out, and it should serve you well.

qckfrze
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Post by qckfrze » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:40 am

The sawzall is basically a mechanical version of the hacksaw, which is the thing u refer to. It's just a saw blade tensioned between the two posts of the hacksaw. A hand saw probably isn't as effective. The sawzall was awesome at cutting stuff. Made a second water gun in almost 45 min.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:10 pm

Okay, thanks for verifying that. I agree, a sawzall is far more effective at cutting anything than a hacksaw is. The blade can cut through pretty much anything--I even used it to shorten a piece of 1/2" aluminum for the pump rod. It rips through 3" PVC very quickly--it couldn't have taken me much longer than 10 or 15 seconds to cut through it, and I'm not the strongest person.

Definitely a good addition to a workshop, so thanks for pointing it out, qckfrze.

gonanooks11
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Question about nozzel

Post by gonanooks11 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:03 am

I was wondering what kind of pipe fitting you used in this gun's nozzel. Any info. you can give about the nozzel would be great. Thanks!

qckfrze
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Post by qckfrze » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:12 am

The nozzle is two pieces: a 2" female to male adapter, and a threaded 2" plug. If you go to Lowes or Home Depot, you'll see that the threads are on the inside of the ridged part of the adapter u see. The plug has the matching threads on the outside of the plug so that it screws in and sits inside the adapter.

Hope this helps!

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