Page 1 of 2

Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:09 am
by Chernobyl
So I'm trying to make a Douchenator and I looked around the forums and found that the over under design is easier to carry. What exactly is it? How would I make it? And This is going to be my first time working with PVC and Water guns and any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:01 am
by martianshark
Read the APH guide. It shows how to work with PVC pipe - how to check for ratings, cut it, cement it, etc.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:35 pm
by C-A_99
The Douchenator is an inline launcher, meaning that the air pressure chamber is right behind the barrel without any bends. An over-under launcher is with the pressure chamber below the barrel, and goes through a 180° bend before getting to the barrel. It is considerably more compact and ergonomical to carry around.

I would personally suggest a better launcher - one that uses a breech loading mechanism instead of muzzle loading. However, since this is your first launcher it may be too difficult for the time being until you're more familiar with PVC and launchers after building the first one. Basic launchers like the Douchenator require ram-rodding to load, unless you keep the barrel detatchable. (which may lead to reliability issues) For connecting bike pumps, you'll have to go to the hardware store and specifically ask for a schrader valve (you'll know you have the right valve if there are threads all over it); other valves will not work or will be a complete pain to install. For firing valves, a modified sprinkler valve or custom built pull/piston valve is strongly recommended. Modified sprinkler valves are easier to make and may be more reliable than built piston or pull valves. For water guns, use a ball valve. Attaching a torque arm (read the homemade articles around and you'll see how to build one) will help with opening plastic valves, or you can use a metal valve which is more expensive and heavier.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:58 pm
by martianshark
How to build a torque arm is in the Super Cannon II guide.

You may also want to use a ball valve, like in Havoc.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:15 pm
by Chernobyl
So Is the Havoc harder to build that the douchenator should I start with it first? Or would it be too difficult. And from say 15 feet or less would the douchenator hurt?

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:21 pm
by zeda.beta
Yes, 15 feet would most definately hurt, because the douchenator is designed to shoot water balloons 300 feet. Unless you used basically no pressure, it would hurt a lot. And from within 50 feet there is no point to having a water balloon launcher anyway, as it would be much easier to just throw the balloons.
-Zeda

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:51 pm
by martianshark
Havoc is pretty much the simplest design possible. I would start with that, but pretty much the only difference with the douchenator is that the douchenator uses a solonoid sprinkler valve, which is more complicated to use. The Havoc simply uses a ball valve.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:14 am
by Chernobyl
ok so I'm going to make my first homemade I already read the aph working with pvc guide so yeah. But this is going to be my first homemade. Should I build an aph first for an idea an experience or just go with the havoc. also should I wait until there's better weather because here in canda it's pretty cold. Will that ruin the pvc. And I shouldn't make it in cold weather?

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:18 am
by C-A_99
I would stay far away from the Havoc, at least its exact design. 3" pipe for PC gives a better shape for storing compressed air, and there's not much point to using a 2" barrel (not to mention one that's so long) if you're not going to build a breech for it. (which I assume you're not because it's not easy to do for beginners unless you're already familiar with PVC/assembly and various power tools; for the relatively simple breech I did you'll need a powered hand drill and dremel)

Here's a rundown on the parts of a launcher to consider:

Barrel: Length, Width (caliber), and loading (muzzle, breech, rear, etc. muzzle being by far the easiest to build but slowest to load)

Firing Valve: Ball, Modified Sprinkler, Piston, Pull (Ball valve is by far the easiest to use but performs poorly; modified sprinkler follows up in ease of building but is a bit pricey)

Pressure Chamber (PC): Length, Width, Number of PC's (one or two PCs will suffice for most uses and more makes the launcher expensive and heavy; obviously having more than one requires them to be the same size and each will need it's own control valve)

- Another PC part is the valve(s) used for pressurization. Generally, a schrader valve (found in hardware stores) for bike pumps and some air compressors will do the job. Follow the instructions on the Douchenator to put the valve in. (drill a hole the same size as the valve's bottom and thread the valve in with pliers; an option is to remove the valve afterwards, apply teflon [thread sealing] tape, and put back in)

- Length is decided by PC volume. Assuming a 3" PC, barrel length should generally be at least twice as long, sometimes 3 times longer. For example, with a 1' by 3" PC, 2-3ft is a good barrel length. For a compact launcher, .5' by 3" PC should be accompanied with a 1.75' to 2' barrel.

- Another factor to consider is design shape. This is how your pressure chamber, firing valve, and barrel are positioned relative to each other.


True, a ball valve w/ a torque arm will do the job, but not only does it perform poorly with releasing air, it is also considerably more cumbersome (and not to mention feels considerably less badass) to operate than a modified sprinkler valve or custom piston/pull valve. I think the extra work and money is worth it to have a nice valve to shoot from.

The idea is that the first homemade should be as useful as possible and not just a learning experience. I went with the Douchenator w/ ball valve myself, and years after I ended up cutting it apart to reconfigure it to an over-under design. Reconfiguring is not something you want to have to do in the future so even if you go with a ball valve + torque arm and muzzle loading, you want to at least have an over-under design (unless it's a compact launcher by design, which you can also do at the cost of performance)

Overall, you have quite a few options here. My recommendation is to never strictly go for a guide, but instead to figure out what you need exactly and to post here for suggestions.

Regarding the cold weather, you won't want to test it in the cold, but you can still buy and assemble parts indoors. (beware of PVC primer/cement fumes; do the job in the garage or basement with a window/door open)

As for the APH, that's another option. When I started with homemades, I built my Douchenator and CPH (I went with a CPH instead of APH) at nearly the same time. If you just build one first, you should decide based on what you'd like to build. A water gun will generally take more time to assemble than a launcher, while a launcher brings something new to the table that wasn't there before. (but it will be difficult and in some situations nearly impossible to use the launcher efficiently during a water war so always keep that in mind)

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:48 am
by soakernerd
I must suggest High capacity Schrader valves for any and all uses. they are cheap ($8 for 2) and durable. also, because of the design, there is no risk of it popping out of the PC. finally, they can handle much higher pressures than standard schraders, allowing you to store more energy in a smaller space. Here is a thread about them. they are available at your generic auto parts store.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:06 pm
by Chernobyl
I was just reading the WBL Faq and looking around. And from your post I understand that wbl aren't just that practical. For one they take too much time to reload and they also are a little big to carry around and I also have a dremel, hand held drill and wood saw so that shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:22 pm
by C-A_99
Some have found practical use for WBL's; despite the long reload time you can still get your first shot(s) off when a war starts, then don't bother with it for the rest of the round. With a crew, a launcher can operate a bit faster, maybe getting off 2 to 4 shots (each shot can be one balloon or muiltiple balloons) a minute depending on how good the launcher is designed.

The impracticality comes from the fact that balloons can be dodged somewhat easily unless you're firing at relatively close (and possibly unsafe) ranges. Some groups have managed to get launchers to be effective at psychological intimidation, but getting kills with them will be very, very difficult.

That said, launchers are very fun to work with and if you can somehow implement them into your battle plan, they may be able to provide unique benefits with their enourmous range. For crews, you shouldn't need more than two people to operate a launcher effectively. (though both should carry a light/medium soaker like a Vindicator or whatever in case something goes haywire) Safety is also another factor to consider and put regulations on with launchers.

If you prefer building an APH or CPH, that can also work out. They are trickier to use than CPS soakers in battle, but it may be possible to still use them effectively. Building a trigger should help a lot but many will not recommend trying to do this for your first homemade. One thing you may be able to try is a CPH with a huge PC designed to get very long shot times, or an LPD (low pressure dropoff, a type of air pressure design) that can be pre-charged for powerful blasts. Figure out what you want to build and you should be able to build it.

For me, the most troublesome part of a homemade is by far the pump. My homemade pumps have mediocre sealing at best though I've had quite some success with the pump from my Flash Flood.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:32 pm
by Chernobyl
Well your idea might work but then You'd have to use your launcher mostly as a stationary weapon rather than a portable one because You'd have to have a pump nearby to charge it and you can't really haul around a 6 feet long piece of pvc with a bike pump and your soakers with you in the field really. I also don't know how to aim properly with one at long ranges if you could tell me how I'd like that. and how would a homemade water gun be trickier to use?

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:44 am
by martianshark
Homemade water guns can be a little trickier to use than stock water guns, but usually not that much. They can be much more powerful though. One of my latest homemades shoots 50 ft for 25 seconds with very high output. Pretty much the only drawback to homemades is that you have to use a ball valve instead of a trigger. I highly recommend building homemades.

Re: Question about Douchenator

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:36 am
by C-A_99
Mobility with a launcher should not be a big issue if you have a crew of two managing it. One person can easily carry the launcher (which, if you design it well, will end up being closer to 4' long instead fo 6' which is definately not that hard to carry) while the other moves the pump around. The launcher can also be carried by itself with a shot loaded.

The basic homemade water gun is not ergonomical nor balanced really well. (though that shouldn't be a big deal if you have a strap and use a backpack reservoir) The disadvantage of using a ball valve is that it requires both hands to shoot and you cannot pump at the same time. There are several solutions to this that involve building a trigger, but it's not easy to do. Homemade pumps are tricky to seal as I've mentioned, and if you go with a CPH, it is imperative that you create a case for the pressure chamber as it will be very annoying otherwise. I personally prefer blasters like the CPS 12k and CPS 2500 for the time being though most homemades provide better stream performance with a good nozzle. (thanks to the ball valve's virtually perfect flow)

I still believe that launchers can be used effectively with the right team players, battlefield, and planning, and they bring a new type of water weapon to the front. However, if your armory is lacking in high range soakers, the homemade may be a better idea.

Don't be detered from building a CPH despite what others may say about it being more complicated. It is actually no more complicated than an APH, and you do not have to buy LRT from McMaster. Instead, you can merely layer party balloons over each other to create a spherical pressure chamber whose power level can be modified easily by adding or removing balloons. Balloons are also cheaper than LRT and should last longer because they are designed to expand to huge volumes. (possibly up to 1 gallon but at that point you risk turning the CPH into a huge water bomb) The main concern here is the PC case. You will need to build one regardless of whether you use LRT or balloons but for balloons you will need a wider case. A spherical case is prefered but you may have to get creative on building one because they are not very documented here.

When pumping a CPH, you must decide when to stop pumping - there is no PRV like in CPS soakers. When pumping an APH, you can pump until your arm feels like it's going to fall off since PVC can stand the pressure easily. However, with the APH you also need a pump that seals very well in order to pre-pump air into the PC's. (without pre-pumping, APH's will not perform as well as they could - the stream will dropoff very early)

APH's appear to be quite heavy but I haven't made nor handled one myself. Perhaps I should go with it for my next project as my LPD is having some very annoying problems.