Small bombs, rapid fire

Threads related to water balloon launchers.
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cantab
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Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by cantab » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:22 am

I had a rough idea for a way to rectify some of the problems with most WBL's, notably accuracy. Basically, you have very small bombs - golf ball sized I'm thinking - which you just fire rapidly. That way you'll get an effect similar to a series of tap shots from a gun, but hopefully because you're firing a solid object you'll get better range.

The hardest part is probably finding suitable bombs and filling them. You might need to get the bombs made specially. I'd suggest heat or glue to seal them, since tying knots would take forever. Also, it'd create something of a litter problem.

I've actually seen a few toys doing a similar thing, but with small sponge-type bombs. That could help with the filling problem, and if they're reusable reduce litter, but I think is less effective at soaking.
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aEx155
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by aEx155 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:39 pm

Well, for that to work, you'd need extremely small water balloons, otherwise they'd take a lot of force to break.

At a water gun fight one time, we were filling them up so they fit in your hand nicely, and I think that was too small.

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Silence
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by Silence » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:32 pm

These have been considered before. wetmonkey442 suggested using sponge in a launcher here and here.

The main problem is finding a balloon material that is stretched enough to break upon impact at small sizes (1" or 2" in diameter). Condoms might work, but since they're designed not to break, I doubt it. I have found that film canisters (which are impossible to found nowadays) fit nearly perfectly in 1.25" pipe - although it might have to be Schedule 80. So that's a good shell, which you'll need.

As for a firing system, Drenchenator's semi-auto valve should do the trick.

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Specter
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by Specter » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:01 pm

On the topic of litter from water balloons: The water balloons I have say on the back of the package they they are made from 100% biodegradable latex.
What's there to worry about litter?
(I get my water balloons from Walgreens)
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cantab
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by cantab » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:49 pm

Good to hear it will degrade; I wasn't sure. However, in any case, it won't degrade immediately. While it may go EVENTUALLY, until it does, it's litter. How much of a problem that is will depend on where you're playing.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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Silence
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by Silence » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:25 pm

It's probably best to assume you won't be able to pick up all the balloons even if you bothered to try. I'd say getting biodegradable ones is a prudent choice. :cool:

How easy is it to pop those water balloons if they're only inflated to 1"?

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cantab
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by cantab » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:28 pm

Like I mentioned, you'd probably need a size much smaller than that normally used. Meaning you'd need to either get them special order (which would be expensive) or figure out a way to make them yourself (liquid latex maybe?)
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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Specter
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by Specter » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:39 am

Do water balloons come in different sizes? If they don't then your idea might not work too well. You can probably look on ebay for extra thin water ballons (which I doubt you'll find) :-(
My "arsenal": Customizable APH, Storm 600 pistol (still haven't finished fixing this), launcher- Model:AB1.0(Decommissioned), AB1.5, soon AB 1.1(2"rebuild) maybe ill get something else in the future
My site Image My website/forum is back up and running, for the most part after it having been deleted in october

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SSCBen
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by SSCBen » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:28 am

I've seen some water balloons slightly larger than golf balls so this is possible. They do make small water balloons. If you don't fill them all the way you can make them slightly smaller but they do have an ideal size where they take the shape of a water balloon. 1.5 inches in diameter would be ideal in my opinion.

We could probably adapt something like this to work with water balloons. I'm thinking that if you simplify that design and make it use a rotating barrel assembly it'll work fine with water balloons. Of course, the construction would be beyond what most would want to do, but I'd be up to the challenge eventually...

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aEx155
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by aEx155 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:30 am

Specter wrote:Do water balloons come in different sizes? If they don't then your idea might not work too well. You can probably look on ebay for extra thin water ballons (which I doubt you'll find) :-(
From another thread about layering long-length ballons to improve the power of a weak gun with an odd-shaped chamber (which made using bike tubes hard), there are different balloon sizes; hopefully that saying is true for water balloons.

It might not be beneficial, thinking about it, though. Water balloons are already small, and the water they deliver isn't the larges amount; making them smaller (I believe) outweighs being able to rapid-fire them, don't you think?

EDIT: Didn't see Ben's post.
Last edited by aEx155 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cantab
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by cantab » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:13 am

aEx155 wrote:It might not be beneficial, thinking about it, though. Water balloons are already small, and the water they deliver isn't the larges amount; making them smaller (I believe) outweighs being able to rapid-fire them, don't you think?
Depends how much you care about output.

What I'm seeing this weapon used as in battle is as an alternative to a water blaster. The average output may be quite low, but the idea is to get much better range at that output than a normal blaster obtains.

You'd need to use 1 1/2 inch bombs for a firing rate of one per second to give an output of 1X.

So basically, imagine a 1X gun with a range of a hundred feet. That's functionality what this launcher would do. It's up to you whether you think that's worth having.

Main drawback is I see it being hideously complicated. As if making the semi-auto weapon isn't hard enough, you'd also want a quick filling and sealing device.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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Silence
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by Silence » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:40 pm

@Ben: From what I remember, the Eclipse cost a few thousand dollars. You'd have access to all the necessary machinery, and maybe you could find scrap metal, but it's still outrageously expensive. I'm sure a plastic variant would be lighter, though.

@aEx: Yep, as cantab said, the range is the biggest advantage over water guns and the rate of fire is the biggest advantage over water balloon launchers. Compared to throwing balloons, these would have more range and a better rate of fire.

aEx155
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by aEx155 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:51 pm

cantab wrote:Depends how much you care about output.

What I'm seeing this weapon used as in battle is as an alternative to a water blaster. The average output may be quite low, but the idea is to get much better range at that output than a normal blaster obtains.

You'd need to use 1 1/2 inch bombs for a firing rate of one per second to give an output of 1X.

So basically, imagine a 1X gun with a range of a hundred feet. That's functionality what this launcher would do. It's up to you whether you think that's worth having.

Main drawback is I see it being hideously complicated. As if making the semi-auto weapon isn't hard enough, you'd also want a quick filling and sealing device.
Well, because this thing is a water gun-like water balloon launcher, you're going to have to think about the things that affect normal water balloon launchers:

1) seeing the incoming water balloons; at 100', that gives plenty of time to move*, and then they know where you are, which brings
2) mobility; carrying a bunch of tiny water balloons is going to be cumbersome and moving something that launches them rapid-fire isn't going to easy either

*unless you cover a large enough area so they can't move without getting hit

The good thing about water guns and their low range, is that, by the time the person see you shooting, they're already hit; they don't have the time to move unless they see you before you start shooting.

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SSCBen
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by SSCBen » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:38 am

@Ben: From what I remember, the Eclipse cost a few thousand dollars. You'd have access to all the necessary machinery, and maybe you could find scrap metal, but it's still outrageously expensive. I'm sure a plastic variant would be lighter, though.
I know it's very expensive and requires access to a machine shop at the least but I think something similar, at least in layout, would be good.

I'm thinking some sort of barrel turret with 6 or more barrels and a semi-auto type valve like my recent DCV-QEV combo valve could work very well for a water balloon launcher. It'd be heavy but much more versatile than any current WBL. For simplicity the barrels could simply push into a coupler like some Nerf guns do. A test PVC WBL wouldn't be too hard to make. I'll start doing some calculations to see if my HPA tank can be used...

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SSCBen
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Re: Small bombs, rapid fire

Post by SSCBen » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:30 am

A week or two ago I finalized the idea in my head for a WBL that shoots 40 mm WBs, has a semi-auto valve, and uses a manually advanced rotating turret for barrels. It should be rather simple to build but I don't have the time or money to build it at the moment. I'm planning to tackle this during Thanksgiving break as a quick project. I've already assembled a few parts I could recycle for it to help me start the project quickly when I come back to my parents' house.

I'm aiming for something with one trigger pull to shoot and a set of 8 or more rotating barrels. Hopefully the design could get all the shots out within a minute comfortably.

I'll post a drawing tomorrow if I remember.

ben@sscentral.org / Please read this before emailing or PMing me

Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

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