Quick question(s)

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:09 pm

SilentGuy wrote:The whole point about homemades is flexibility. Use any setup that does the right thing - the ends justify the means in this case. Sounds like either of your options will work.

It's common that some valves will be easier to turn than others, and turning them a lot does break them in. I always sift through the entire box of valves to find the one that's the easiest to turn.

Don't use WD-40. For ball valves, whose seals can't be replaced easily (easier to buy a new valve), use silicone lubricant. However, I think just using the valve a bit or even unscrewing the screw half a turn or so might help.

i was wondering if there was a screw to loosen. theres a white cap in the middle of the red handle, how can i get it off? i don't think i have a small enough - screwdriver. I also did find 2 cans of silicone lubricant, but i'm unsure if they are ok.

regarding looking thru the box, they had a box of 1" ball valves, i thought they were all non threaded because thats what the box said, there was a box that said 1" threaded ball valves, but there were none, then i found that the only 2 threaded ones were in with the non threaded ones, so i hadn't noticed them earlier, and one was practically no use in trying to open it was so hard, the second one was easier to open so i bought it, as i previously said.

edit: i got the white cap off, theres nothing under it, except that the white thing is what makes the ball turn inside the valve

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:47 pm

i went to home depot, and i sort of lost track of how long i was standing there staring at the different pvc fittings. i was there for at least an hour.

Well anyway, i bought a combination to get me from 2" to 1". Since they don't have a great supply of parts, and they're all scattered in all different boxes. I had to buy a 2" to 1.5" reducer coupling (2)(each were $1.09) and a 1.5" to 1" bushing (2)(each $.96). Now Home depot doesnt have the slide male adapters(i don't know if i'm referring it correctly but its the one that the pipe slides over and goes to the male threads), but i believe lowes does, according to their site. I also found the regular teflon tape and bought a roll for $.99

now all i need to buy is the 2" 10-foot PVC($5.89), and the 2 male adapters ($.44 ea) and the pvc primer/cement pack ( $5.48 )

and left in my budget is $28.61

*all prices in USD

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:56 am

Sounds good! Oh, and don't worry about an hour spent looking at the parts...I've spent more.

Are you getting elbows so that you can make an over-under design? I'd suggest it, as 2" tubing is narrow and could require more length.

Yep, those fittings are called male adapters.

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:23 am

SilentGuy wrote:Sounds good! Oh, and don't worry about an hour spent looking at the parts...I've spent more.

Are you getting elbows so that you can make an over-under design? I'd suggest it, as 2" tubing is narrow and could require more length.

Yep, those fittings are called male adapters.

the reason i was surprised how long i was there, was that the same guy who helped me yesterday came up to me and asked if i needed any help because i had been standing there for over an hour. haha.

actually no i was thinking about making a douchenator style but with 2 inch tubing.

im actually not sure if i can find a slip male adapter. i can't tell if the one on the lowes site is correct, so i'll have to go in store to check it some time.

the guy there also said that they don't carry any fitting like that, but what i could do is use some 1 inch pipe to extend it to the male adapter. (i would need about 1.5 feet to do that and have extra correct?)

edit: or could i have gotten threaded reducer bushings and use a pipe nipple to go from there to my ball valve?

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:28 pm

heres a picture of all the parts i bought so far

top left: 1.5" to 1" reducer bushings

top right: 1" ball valve

Middle: 2" end cap for PC

bottom left: 2" to 1.5" reducer couplings

bottom right: teflon tape (i added this for no reason haha)

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:27 am

Right, you could have used the pipe nipple method. Or the 1" tubing to connect to a male adapter. When I first started looking at PVC, I thought they'd have lots of fittings that had connectors to go into the sockets of other fittings. But they don't...that's why they have tubing. You might as well just get the tubing though - it's cheap enough. The pipe nipple method would be more compact though.

There is one fitting for which I've seen a connector to go in another fitting. It's a weird elbow that has a regular socket on one side a pipe-sized connection on the other side. It could probably be used to make some really compact designs.

Oh, and I presume you meant 1.5", not 1.5 feet...

Sorry for rambling. The first official day of summer break tends to do that to me.

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:24 am

SilentGuy wrote:
Oh, and I presume you meant 1.5", not 1.5 feet...

Sorry for rambling. The first official day of summer break tends to do that to me.

if you're referring to the post i made before the picture, no i meant 1.5 feet. Total then cut the required amount off of that for the connections.

yes today was the start of summer break for me too, at 11:35 am, now i can get this project started!

and about those elbows, i think i saw them too, except they were either threaded on one side or the other. They also have reducer elbows like that, but they don't carry the correct size i would need.

Not related to reply:
and i just noticed this about the picture: the end cap looks to be flat due to the flash, but its round on one end.

And one last question for now: Is it possible to use a schrader valve that is cut off of a bike tube? i have a few bike tire tubes that i don't think will be used anymore, so is it possible to use that for the fill device? like cut the valve off with a circle of rubber around the bottom and somehow glue it to the pvc (from the inside to create a seal) to use that to pressurize the PC, instead of having to go buy a schrader valve. Does home depot have schrader valves? what section would i find them in? I know ACE hardware does because i found it on their site, but i have no access to my local ACE store(unless i get my dad to take me there sometime)

DX · Post by DX » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:55 am

If your Home Depot doesn't have 2" to 1" reducers then there's no way they'd have schrader valves. I'm not sure why a Jersey hardware store wouldn't have such common parts. I mean, I'm only an hour north of you, but my local stores carry a frightening selection and the metal valves are much cheaper. They did jack up the cost of the 3/4" and 1" ones, but the 1/ 1/4" and higher are still as cheap as their PVC counterparts.

Anyway, you'd want a fresh schrader valve. Try a bike store if you can't locate any at hardware stores. There are two common ways to attach one. Best is to buy a female double threaded metal reducer [say 1/4" to 1/2" if your schrader is 1/4"] and screw the valve into one end, the other onto a 1/2" male adaptor. In this method, there won't be any leaking.

Second method is to drill a hole ever so slightly larger than your valve. You then screw it into the hole using pliers. If the hole is clean, you need not glue it. Ben has mentioned the risk of leaking, but I've only had one leak noticably and I did it badly. It has held 100 PSI in the Douchenator for over an hour without losing any noticable pressure. But if you can get the reducer, go for that.

Why does the entire nation always get out of school before I do? I've got exactly two weeks left! Every other school seems to start later, have shorter days, have more snow days, and get out earlier.

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:08 am

DX wrote: Anyway, you'd want a fresh schrader valve. Try a bike store if you can't locate any at hardware stores. There are two common ways to attach one. Best is to buy a female double threaded metal reducer [say 1/4" to 1/2" if your schrader is 1/4"] and screw the valve into one end, the other onto a 1/2" male adaptor. In this method, there won't be any leaking.

the bike tubes i have are fairly new, acquired from parts(rims with tires and tubes attached) from the "trash" and i have a friend down the street that has a ton of bike parts(tubes, broken bikes etc).

but if i just buy a new schrader, how would i attach the reducer u speak of? i can't picture what you mean. If you can, can you make a drawing or something? thanks

edit:if you can suggest something to me quick, save the time of posting ans IM me, im always on AIM.

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:40 pm

you said that silicone lubricant would be ok to use on the ball valve, correct? So, would a can that says "Silicone Lubricant" or "Silicone Spray Lubricant" be ok? those are the other 2 cans next to the WD-40

and i just forgot the second thing i was going to say, ill edit it in later if i remember

edit: would 4 foot barrel and 2 foot PC be a reasonable ratio for my launcher?
and i might switch back to 3" tube, ill have to buy 2 more reducers

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:01 am

well, i got that PVC designer program a while ago and decided to try it out.

i came up with 2 designs- one inline style and the other over under style.

design 1:

design 2:

each is made with all 2" PVC except where it connects to the ball valve where it converts to 1", They are both made with 4ft barrel and 2ft PC

and on the second it converts to 1" into the elbows, the elbows are 1" to the valve then converts up to 2" at the barrel

on the second one, should i cut the 1" section to the elbow from the PC to make them flush, so the spot isn't too weak?
Like this:

sorry if the pictures are large

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:17 am

A 1:2 ratio for the chamber:barrel is suitable for water balloon launchers. Potato cannons generally use 2:1 ratios, but here we're not looking for maximum performance - we're looking for efficiency. A smaller pressure chamber means less pumping, and you can use whatever length of barrel you want.

Yup, that's the silicone lube you're looking for. Don't completely slather the surfaces as the lube may congeal; just get the surface coated lightly.

It doesn't matter whether or not the joints are flush - the launcher is just as strong either way. However, flush joints look a bit better and are a bit more compact. That said, in the old APH article, Ben suggested having space so you can cut off around a fitting and glue in a new one if necessary. So it doesn't really matter. I personally would prefer flush joints.

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:42 am

Ok so if i make the PC only 1 foot, (so i have enough pvc for a second launcher)
will it still be as powerful?(will i get the same psi?)

and for the lube, since its like a spray paint can, i can just give it a quick spritz into the valve and it should be good?

DX · Post by DX » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:04 am

1 foot is about the minimum, but yes, you can still get good performance. My battery cannon has a 1' pc, and I've been able to pump it to 110 PSI.

I sitll don't know why you couldn't find cheap metal valves. I was in Sears purchasing final items for my next water cannon and glanced at the ball valves. A 3/4" brass ball valve, unthreaded, was a stunning $10.34. However, a brass 3/4" threaded valve was a mere $3.79, cheaper than a 2" coupling by nearly a dollar! I also found this really cool rare part - a 3" half T reducing to 1 1/2" on the top and to a solid end on the right. I've never seen a one-piece end like that - normally you need to use an endcap and pipe segment to join it. This strange part had no name, id, or even a price tag attached. There were a few more, so I'm going back tomorrow and clearing them out. Since you are in North Jersey, you should have access to cheap metal and rare fittings, as well as whatever pressure rated pipe you want. Locally, most hardware stores carry pressure rated pipe up to 4", some up to 6".

Specter · Post by **Specter** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:18 am

DX wrote:
I sitll don't know why you couldn't find cheap metal valves. I was in Sears purchasing final items for my next water cannon and glanced at the ball valves. A 3/4" brass ball valve, unthreaded, was a stunning $10.34. However, a brass 3/4" threaded valve was a mere $3.79, cheaper than a 2" coupling by nearly a dollar!

thanks for the info about the PC.

I'm not really in north jersey, i'm in central jersey, and for some reason, the metal valves cost a lot. The 1" valve was almost $13 (threaded or unthreaded are the same price) the pvc valve i bought was $5.29 or so. All the PVC fittings i saw were dirt cheap, the 2" couplings (just to compare to what you said) were just over $1, as were the reducer couplings i bought ($1.09 for 2" to 1.5")