Screens on nozzles?

stealth · Post by **stealth** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:41 pm

grats on 300! I'm on 3 .. I think..

Anyway I'm not sure about this but perhaps what the screen does is separate the thick stream into many thin streams which I assume become better controled.

I'm guessing there is an ideal size for the mesh density.. and maybe the stock mesh isn't that size

However I was wondering what would happen if instead of a mesh.. you put in something that is like a.. honeycomb.. like a mesh but deeper so it is like many many small 1" tubes.

===
===
===

My idea is that this may have a better effect on the flow because water will travel through it longer compared to a mesh which the water only gets exposed to for a short time.

I have no idea. I have no knowledge in this area so just throwing the idea up in the air.

Jon

Crashdummy · Post by **Crashdummy** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:51 pm

That seems like a great idea. Changing your idea I just thought of something. Smaller streams don't break up as much as larger ones do so if your honeycomb idea is used I think it would be possible to take one big lets say... 20x stream and turn it into 4 5x streams traveling right next to each other. That way, maybe range could get increased on bigger nozzles.

NiborDude · Post by **NiborDude** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:51 pm

The honey comb idea is in fact part of some soakers. In the CPS 2500, there are straws inside the soaker which form a honey comb shape. I tried my own mesh on a soaker one time when Duxburians CPS 2100's screen was damaged and no longer shot in a stream, but rather a larger burst. The mesh we used was too large, but it did help to control the stream a bit.

SSCBen · Post by **SSCBen** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:48 pm

Yep, the straws/honeycomb idea has been around for ages. They can help, but you must remember that the best designs wouldn't need them.

DX · Post by DX » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:01 am

Straws don't always help. I put straws in my 2nd APH to see if they would help lamination and they cut up the stream instead [and got blasted out]. Changing your nozzle size has a bigger impact on lamination than screens/straws IMO. For example, my APH stream stays pretty well laminated on certain nozzles while breaking up on others.

NiborDude · Post by **NiborDude** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:29 am

There are a couple reasons the straws in your APH didn't work. Firstly, the straws were not long enough. From the ball valve to the nozzle there was a lot of space that the straws didn't take up. Secondly, the straws were not tightly packed. The straws have to be tight enough so that they won't budge. Lastly, the straws shot out of the nozzle. How do you expect them to do anything if they were not in the barrel?

DX · Post by DX » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:50 pm

The main reason they didn't work is because they were shot out a few at a time. Those factors you listed only affected the first shot; after that the straws were useless.

SSCBen · Post by **SSCBen** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:21 am

I've had luck keeping large McDonalds straws in a nozzle slightly smaller than the straw.

You could try something like that, but it wouldn't have as much effect as smaller straws. I think that we'll need to make some way to either keep the straws attached or somehow construct an actual honeycomb-shaped piece to fit in there.

Of course, the easiest and best solution is to design better so that straws wouldn't be necessary. B)

NiborDude · Post by **NiborDude** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:37 am

Well, the straws need to be larger than the nozzle size, for obvious reasons. I would tape them tightly together.

SSCBen · Post by **SSCBen** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:00 am

Taping works for the outside straws, but not the inner ones. I've tried taping the outside, then the inside ones and the center one to the rest, but the tape really just got in the way and disrupted the stream. I suppose that there's other ways to tape them however.

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:31 pm

Possibly, there might be some product out there that was designed for a different purpose but can be used in place of straws. This is quite common among DIYers. In addition, I suppose one could salvage straws from broken soakers.

20quid · Post by **20quid** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:12 pm

Why don't you just use a mesh to stop the straws shooting out? Plus it would have the added benefit as mentioned before of better screen lamination.

SSCBen · Post by **SSCBen** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:56 pm

I'm fairly sure that someone has used mesh screens to contain the straws better. Mesh screens aren't pure benefit however.

Straws and mesh screens should only be used when the stream is turbulent. The mesh screens only improve lamination because the stream velocity is reduced, which we know is something that we don't want. The straws theoretically will straighten the stream. The straws also can, in my experience, reduce total distance on a better design water gun. Before and after testing would be necessary to determine whether or not straws are necessary.

An alternative to straws is the newly found "strings" which are currently being tested by Buzz Bee Toys. I don't know too much about the strings, but I do know that they work to reduce turbulence.

I'll also say this once again because I don't think that people are reading it: You won't have to use straws or mesh screens if you design your water gun correctly in the first place. Instead of focusing on how to reduce turbulence, focus on not creating turbulence in the first place.

Silence · Post by **Silence** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:14 pm

I haven't actually examined the meshes and straws on water guns (the largest I have is a late-model CPS 4100), but I think straws and a mesh is overkill. Taking part of Ben's argument, both of these may just be obstructing the stream flow--and in this case, unless the plates of the straws and the wires of the mesh are perfectly lined up, the flow created by the straws is just wasted when it hits the mesh.

I've seen all of your arguments concerning linear flow and the like, Ben, but I haven't actually built homemades simply for the purposes of comparison--and until I experience the difference firsthand (hopefully at the beginning of summer break, which starts in early June), I can only theorize. Hint: some high-quality images might give me a "first impression"

.