Really Compact APH

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.

Should I change this to CPS?

Yes
2
40%
No
3
60%
 
Total votes: 5

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C-A_99
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:59 am

Read Ben's APH article to get his range estimates. http://www.sscentral.org/homemade/aph/

A 1" barrel isn't really necessary, as it would mostly benefit for higher pressures, higher than what is possible to pump to with a single-arm pump. (Unless you're Chuck Norris or something.)

Most of the time the blaster is aimed between 0 and 45 degrees. 90 degree PC's are most common because they have less awkward weight distributions, though a 45 degree PC gives a good handle if designed correctly.
Last edited by C-A_99 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:06 pm

Well, Ben's APH has more PCs. I want to know how far mine will go. If it doesn't go past 30, I'm better off getting an Overload. Okay, I'll use a 1" pump because that's the one in the instructions, and 3" everything else. Do they have couplers for 3" to 1"? If not, how do I couple those and a 2L bottle to 1" PVC?
Sorry if I'm not active much, busy on another forum and another project non-soaker related.

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cantab
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by cantab » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:55 pm

The two main ways to join different sizes of PVC pipe are reducing bushings and bell reducers. The former will probably be more compact.

I'd be very surprised if it doesn't make 30 feet. 50 should be a goal. Short range can be due to 'secondary' factors, most commonly a poor pump (that can't make enough pressure) or nozzle.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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C-A_99
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:54 am

The specifications there call for a 1/2" pump, not 1". Any pumps larger than 1/2" will be too difficult to pump to a decent pressure level.

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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:20 am

Then I must have read it wrong. Okay, so I'll use reducing bushings for the pipes. Any ideas how to attach the 2L bottle? I think I saw something in soakernerd's thread.

LOWE'S HERE I COME!!!
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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:28 am

Didn't the CPS Custom Assault Rifle have a ball valve with a trigger?
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C-A_99
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:07 am

Please edit instead of double posting to keep the forums clean, thanks.

Anyway, if you can find reducing bushings and couplers for 3" instead of merely bell reducers, use that as they are somewhat more durable. Otherwise, the bell reducers are the only option. (They're safe as long as they're assembled properly, and APH/CPH's never go anywhere near a level of pressure where it'd be dangerous.)

For triggers, the Riptide DR-4 is another design that uses one, with the casing design being more similar to stock blasters. Any kind of ball valve trigger is difficult to do however, and requires good pre-planning.

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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:46 am

Okay, so I'll use a ball valve that opens really easily. I'll use JLspacemarine's design for a trigger (do I need to ask for permission?) because it's very self-explanatory and it uses a spring. Drenchenator uses rubber bands, and I don't really trust them.

UPDATE: I just noticed 3" is too big for my taste. I think I'll use 1 1/2" or 2". Is that a problem?

EDIT: Attached are my blueprints. Any problems?
Attachments
Water gun trigger mech.jpg
water gun prototype.jpg
Last edited by strato_2r5 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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C-A_99
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Ball valve triggers also seem to require a lot of experimentation. I haven't done one myself, but I would conjecture that the design in your diagram would have some trouble opening completely. It will still work, but a fully open valve performs best.

1/2" valves open the most easily. You will of course, have to pick through the batches at the store and test to see which ones open the most easily, but generally, the smaller the valve, the more easily it will open. However, you will want a 3/4" valve if big riot blasts and what not are important, otherwise, 1/2" should suffice for most general uses. Using a 1/2" barrel/tubing to back up the valve is also usually a better idea as the valve will restrict flow anyway, and you'll save a little money with the smaller piping. (Not sure if a 1/2" valve backed with 3/4" improves performance over 1/2" backing by any significant amount.)

For both pressure chambers and the reservoir, simply do the math. Higher diameters bring up the volume substantially. If 3" is definitely too large, and you can't do much about it, then 2" will also work (with a slight loss in performance), but below that it's hard to tell how much performance would decrease.

As far as I know, no one in the community has ever required permission to borrow designs. The purpose of sharing designs is to help and bring insight to everyone else, as well as get feedback at the same time.

Here are some thoughts on the reservoir. A reservoir designed to be top heavy so the water flow will channel to an intake hole on the bottom (instead of using an intake tube) will use up all the water efficiently, whereas using a tube will leave a few droplets behind. However, such a reservoir is not very ergonomic and is difficult to build in. Since you are already using an intake tube, another possible idea is to mount the reservoir beneath the pump, which should balance things much better but does make it more difficult to pump. It's up to you.

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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:29 pm

I just figured out that if check valves are too long, I'm going to have to use more curves than I want. Attached is my backup plan. Will it cause any problems?

UPDATE: I just visited my local Lowe's. They have all the parts I need, though I didn't buy anything yet. I'm just worried a little about a 2" pipe. They don't have PVC, it's ABS. Will it work with a PVC bushing? Also, what do they mean by CPVC in the pump construction page?

Any ideas for nozzle sizes?
Attachments
water gun mark II.png
Last edited by strato_2r5 on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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C-A_99
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by C-A_99 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:41 am

The check valves will be longer than that. They are always longer than they are thick. Check the homemade articles for examples of it.

The CPVC (a pipe used to carry both hot and cold water, and works by different measurements than Schedule 40 PVC) used in the pump construction page is for creating spacers to keep the O-rings in place. However, I'm not sure if I can recommend that. If you can't get a perfectly straight/square pipe cut on the CPVC, it won't turn out very good. Instead, I'd actually suggest trying epoxy putty to create the pump spacers. Also, from my experience, wooden dowels (rods) are TERRIBLE to use for pumps. Aluminum or plastic (the former being probably easier to find) does the best job for that.

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cantab
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by cantab » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:18 am

To join ABS to PVC, you will need a glue for the purpose - normal PVC glue won't do it. Apparently ABS-PVC joins are often prohibited in domestic plumbing, but products are nonetheless available.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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soakernerd
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by soakernerd » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:09 pm

Make sure the ABS is SOLID CORE. Their are foam core variants which should NEVER be put under pressure.
Pessimist: These blasters hold no water
Optimist: But their small output means they last just as long
Marketing: Huge blasts of water!
user: I shot it at an angle and it went a whole ten feet!

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martianshark
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by martianshark » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:50 pm

If it has a foam core, it will say "celeur core" on it.

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strato_2r5
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Re: Really Compact APH

Post by strato_2r5 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:33 pm

Okay, so I'll just hope they have 2" PVC next time.

Off Topic: I'm trying to get a Max Infusion Overload (don't ask why). Is this website trustworthy? I'm uneasy about the picture; the reservoir is yellow. http://water-toys.biz/WebStore/ProductD ... ductID=288
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