APH Concept

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
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mysterio
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Re: APH Concept

Post by mysterio » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:57 am

hey SEAL, is it done yet?

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SEAL
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APH COMPLETE!!

Post by SEAL » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:21 pm

It's complete and it works! I repeat, it's complete and it works! Took a little longer then expected, but I finished it just a little while ago and it works great!
Well... Sort of. It's range is not the greatest, and it's very heavy. Here are some pictures:

Here is a pic of the blaster right after I filled it for the first time.
Image

I have 2 nozzle sizes, 1/8", and 1/4". Here they are. They're basically caps with holes drilled through them. You can also leave off the nozzles and have a riot blast which is 1/2".
Image

Here are some shot pics. Now my little brother had the camera when I was firing from the 1/8" nozzle, and I guess he forgot to take the picture, so I only have pics of the 1/4" nozzle and the riot blast. Oh well, I'll take some pics later.
Here's the 1/4" nozzle:
Image

And the riot blast. (It looks like it's shooting a lot farther then it really is.)
Image

Here are the range test results: (I haven't done output or soakage tests yet.)
1/8" nozzle: 21 feet. That's the same range as my 2L. =(
1/4" nozzle: 34 feet. This is the best in terms of range.
Riot blast: 25 and a half feet.

Yes I know, that was terrible. I was expecting 50 or more feet. I think the reason for this is that the bike pump doesn't have that much volume. (If it did, it would probably blow up bike tires.) It gets impossible to pump after 15 pumps. Oh well, maybe I'll make my own pump next time.

The whole thing is very heavy. I am going to add a strap to it.
I also put some pads on the shoulder stock. here is a pic.
Image

I haven't added a trigger yet, and I don't know if I will. I'm going to oil the ball valve later, and if it gets nice and loose, then I'll add a trigger. I'm also gonna paint the whole thing black when I'm done making modifications to it.

PROS:
It actually works.
It's kind of intimidating.

CONS:
Terrible range when compared to other APH's, probably due to low pump volume.
Very heavy when loaded.
Ball valve is very stiff, making it impossible to add a trigger. (I hope to fix this.)
Capacity is rather low.

Output and soakage tests coming soon! I will also get shot pics of the 1/8" nozzle.

And, just for your entertainment, I will show you a picture of my crazy brother pretending to be a mad scientist.
Here you go: This was taken a while back. My workbench is in the background.
Image

So I wouldn't call it a failure, I mean, it works and all that, but I have to make some serious adjustments before I can use it for combat. (Trigger, strap, etc.)
Even though this didn't turn out like I hoped, it still might be useful for a base defense or something like that.

My next project will be a CPH. I won't start building it until the winter or possibly next spring. It will most likely have a backpack reservoir, and I think I'll make my own pump.

So there you go.
~SEAL
Captain of the Catskill Mountain S.E.A.L.s (Soaker Elite Assault Legion.)

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Silence
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Re: APH Concept

Post by Silence » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:38 pm

Did you dremel out the insides of 3/4" tees for the connector pipe? Nicely done.

I can't really tell if you used primer or not - I think you did, but cleanly. Again, props.

The cause of poor range is almost always a bad nozzle, and you can see from the 1/4" shot pic that the stream isn't coherent at all. The best alternative to drilled endcaps is a metal pipe nipple (basically a short length of pipe, with threads along the outside) with an inner diameter somewhere between 1/4" and 3/8". Some people have also suggested hose barbs (like what you'd slide the rubber tubing over in an elastic pressure homemade), although they don't specify the inner diameter (only the outer diameter, which is the inner diameter of the rubber hose...) and there's the risk that the inside is tapered, which could do weird things to the flow. Or if you know anyone with a drill press, you could drill an endcap with that in order to get a smoother aperture.

As for the size, yeah, the gun does look a little large and stretched-out. You might want to look at water guns designed from the start to have an onboard reservoir...for example Duxburian's n00b killer and APR 4000 (although its pressure chamber tee is facing the "wrong" direction and probably isn't pressure-rated). I'm not sure how easy it would be to make your water gun more compact, or whether the weight comes from the PVC or from all the water inside (i.e. it's too large).

Anyway, it looks like a fine water gun, so I hope you get the range issue fixed.

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SEAL
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Re: APH Concept

Post by SEAL » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:30 pm

Okay, lets take it from the top...

When you say connector pipe, you mean the handle right? If so, I actually did not dremel out 3/4 tees. If you look in my post made on 7-14-2010, you will see that the top handle is actually a 1" X 3/4" tee with 1" going across, and 3/4" on the bottom. The handle itself is 3/4". Now the bottom tee, is 3/4" on all sides. The pump is thin enough to slide into the 3/4" tee, but the 1/2" tee where the pump goes in, was a bit to small for the pump so I had to drill it out with a 7/8" drill bit. Then the pump could fit in.

I actually did not use primer, I used sandpaper. That will work just as well, if not better.

Yeah the stream just kind of sprinkles out the nozzle. I do have a drill press, and as a matter of fact, that was what I used to drill out the nozzles. So I guess that doesn't work. You can put a metal pipe nipple into something that's already drilled right? I've decided not to use hose barbs since you said they can affect the stream. I don't want to risk it.

By the looks of it, n00b killer uses 2" pipe for the reservoir, and APR 4000 looks like it's reservoir is a 3" wye . I imagine that could save space and maybe make it more balanced, but it looks like it would be a lot heavier. Most of the weight on mine is in the PC's when empty, and the reservoir when full. I thought about using 2 or 3 inch pipe for the reservoir, but I thought it would be too heavy. Maybe I'll try it on my next project. It's kinda too late to do anything to make it smaller without redoing the whole thing.
In case you don't know, the reason it's this big, is because I wanted to make it so I could take out the check valves and ball valve, in case I wanted to use them for something else, without paying for new ones.

Speaking of that, can someone help me with my ball valve? It was very stiff when I first got it, so I lubricated it, but it just made it worse. Does anyone know if there's any way to fix this? I tried using WD-40, silicone, and even oil, but it's still stiffer then ever. If there's nothing to be done about it, I'll have to go to plan B, and not add a trigger, and instead attach a lever to the valve handle to make it easier to pull. Or I can buy a new valve.
Captain of the Catskill Mountain S.E.A.L.s (Soaker Elite Assault Legion.)

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mysterio
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Re: APH Concept

Post by mysterio » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:17 pm

SEAL, just turn it a ton of times. that usually does the trick.

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zeda.beta
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Re: APH Concept

Post by zeda.beta » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:48 pm

Home depot carries a ball valve lubricant, and that makes the valve slide like socks on a oiled chest.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Quack damn you.

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SEAL
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Re: APH Concept

Post by SEAL » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Thanks a lot for the advice guys.

Now I probably won't be around much these next few days, starting Saturday. My cousins will be coming up, and I'll be pretty busy. We may have a big water fight when they're here, so I'll be posting a battle report after they leave. (At the end of next week.)

That also means I won't have any time to make adjustments to my blaster this coming week. I may do some work on it tomorrow if there's time.
Captain of the Catskill Mountain S.E.A.L.s (Soaker Elite Assault Legion.)

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zeda.beta
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Re: APH Concept

Post by zeda.beta » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:12 pm

zeda.beta wrote:Home depot carries a ball valve lubricant, and that makes the valve slide like socks on a oiled chest.
I might've been drunk or something when I wrote this. Oh well.

Good luck on the water fight, and I might reccomend posting the battle report with a clear name.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Quack damn you.

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mysterio
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Re: APH Concept

Post by mysterio » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:53 pm

yea, it sounded really weird when i first read that.

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Silence
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Re: APH Concept

Post by Silence » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:10 pm

It's funny, when I opened this page today, the browser jumped down to the picture and caption of the 1" to 3/4" tee. Oh well. Makes more sense, and it's a smart choice.

I guess I was completely wrong about using a drill press then - I haven't had a chance to try it myself. Regardless, I also never got the advertised ranges...might have reached 40 feet or so with a pipe nipple? Anyway, yes, pipe nipples should be easy to affix. However their outer diameter will probably be smaller than 1/2" so you'll need an adapter, as I think I mentioned. They're also much hard to switch in and out.

You can use foam core PVC for reservoirs - there are tiny air bubbles in the material to reduce weight. But this type of pipe is weaker and not suitable for the pressurized parts of the water gun. Anyway, the two water guns I mentioned are notable for their layout, not for the fact that they use PVC for their reservoirs ;) . The point was, if there's a way to have your bottle reservoir double back, then the water gun will be shorter and the center of mass may not be as far away from you when you hold it.

zeda.beta, I didn't know that they sold lubricant specifically for ball valves. Also, I'd suggest at least trying to loosen the screw to see if that helps.

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SEAL
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Re: APH Concept

Post by SEAL » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:19 pm

Hi guys. I just dropped in for a little while.

First of all, is it possible to attach a pipe nipple to the nozzles that I have now? I've never seen a pipe nipple before, so I don't know. If the threads are on the outside then why shouldn't I be able to? Unless they all come in only one size.

I could replace the reservoir, as it's not permanently affixed. Weaker pipes don't matter in this case because it's not a pressurized reservoir blaster. Or does it? It still might be heaver though. I don't know how much foam core PVC weighs.

Regarding the lubricant, I went to Lowes and Home Depot, and they didn't have any lubricant made specifically for ball valves. I can't loosen the screw, because as you can see in the first pic of the completed blaster, there is no screw on it.

Anyway, we only had one fight so far, that was just a soakfest. My brothers chose a Sneak Attack & a Vaporizer, and my 2 cousins chose my Max-D 6000 and a MD-4000. I was stuck with my AS Secret Strike.(I would have chosen my AB, but it doesn't work too well after I fixed it.) Even though I got the bad end of the deal, I still was the least soaked out of everybody. That made me happy. My battle skills are better then I thought. I'm not gonna post this as a battle report, because I just told you pretty much all that there is to tell.

Actually, we also had a night fight, but I felt sick at the time and didn't participate. According to my brothers though, it was boring and over too quick. So I didn't miss much. We may have a battle later today, 'cause my other cousins are coming over and we'll have more people. (I hope there's enough good blasters for everybody, so it's more evened out.)

My cousins will be staying until Sunday. After that I will be back here again.
Captain of the Catskill Mountain S.E.A.L.s (Soaker Elite Assault Legion.)

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mysterio
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Re: APH Concept

Post by mysterio » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:18 pm

silicone spray. and foam core is pretty light, so use it.

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Silence
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Re: APH Concept

Post by Silence » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:56 am

You'll probably need some type of adapter or two to be able to use a pipe nipple. It needs a female port (not a male one, which is what threaded endcaps need) and it probably needs to be smaller than the barre's diameter.

I don't think you'll save too much weight with foam core, not compared to the weight of a (filled) reservoir. It's obviously a fine (and cheaper) choice for a new homemade soaker, but it might not be too useful to retrofit it onto a soaker that's already built.

Don't know what to say about the lube. Silicone lubricant is recommended for most things, but haven't you tried that already? You shouldn't need to slather the surface with grease and lube of different kinds, so something else might be wrong. Maybe the screw's too tight? Maybe it needs a longer lever, if it's a plastic ball valve?

Enjoy your water fights.

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zeda.beta
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Re: APH Concept

Post by zeda.beta » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:41 am

Here's the link. It was in stock at mine, located in the plumbing section.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Quack damn you.

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SEAL
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Re: APH Concept

Post by SEAL » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:04 am

Huh, I can look in the store again. I'll look for pipe nipples while I'm there, I don't know when I'll get there though. Maybe Monday.
I'll probably use foam-core for my CPH.

I'm back now by the way. I will be working on it starting tomorrow. Pictures will be posted.
I never had anymore battles though.
Captain of the Catskill Mountain S.E.A.L.s (Soaker Elite Assault Legion.)

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