CPS 2000 Bladder split, help please!

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Ichabodv
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CPS 2000 Bladder split, help please!

Post by Ichabodv » Mon May 29, 2006 4:28 am

Ok, I have been going through this site and others for quite a while and for some reason I can't find an answer to the question: What can I replace a broken CPS 2000 bladder with? I saw LRT mentioned but found no definition as to what it is.
Any suggestions? (By the way: I have a mk1) Thanks in advance!
Here's a pic:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/Ichabodv/05292006.jpg
Last edited by Ichabodv on Mon May 29, 2006 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Mon May 29, 2006 2:35 pm

Welcome to Super Soaker Central!

A split like this is unrepairable, and it's just plain painful to see a CPS 2000 in such shape. Luckily, you're at the right place and we can definitely help you here. Your only option is replacement via latex rubber tubing. Admittedly, the articles on LRT on the website are outdated, so I'll explain what you'll need to do here. The reason why there's no information on bladder replacement thusfar is because only one person I know of has completed that modification and consequently there are no guides to the repair. With your help, we can make a guide.

First off, plan on ordering a tube of LRT from McMaster-Carr and buying lots of bike inner tubes afterwards. Measure the internal diameter of the CPS 2000 bladder and post here (I'll tell you which tube to buy based upon that information). Please try to be as exact as possible - I don't want you to buy the wrong size tube due to a measurement error. Also, if possible, provide the bladder thickness as well because I'm sure that's something a few want to know.

The bike inner tubes are insurance that your water gun will be as powerful or more powerful than before. The CPS 2000 has a very thick bladder and consequently is very powerful. LRT might not be available as thick as that, so a second tube of LRT or bike tubes if a second tube can not be sized correctly must be stacked over the inner tube of LRT.

Good luck with the repair. With luck, you'll be the first person to repair a CPS 2000's bladder. ;)

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Ichabodv
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Post by Ichabodv » Tue May 30, 2006 11:43 am

The shape of the tube is not uniform so I will give a couple of measurements. On the end that connects to the release valve:
OD: 1" ID: 5/8" That would make wall thickness 3/16"
This measurement is important since it is necessary to be able to fit on the valve fitting.
After that it goes to: OD: 3/4" ID: 3/8" wall thickness the same.
I'm pretty sure that the second measurement is not really important other than to establish a uniform wall thickness.
This is the bladder:
Image

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isoaker_com
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Post by isoaker_com » Tue May 30, 2006 3:50 pm

That's one painful image to see.

Ben's right in that there has been pretty much no successful repair jobs on any CPS-chamber. Seeing the CPS2000's chamber ripped along an apparent seam is heartbreaking.

A chamber replacement is your best bet. However, a similarly elastic and strong piece of LRT is rare to find. Perhaps you could first attempt to create an initial, functional chamber, then increase the power by basically layering on more tubing once the intial chamber is properly attached and working. Helping develop a guide would be helpful for all members of Soakerdom as such an undertaking has rarely been documented well.

:cool:
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue May 30, 2006 8:04 pm

Ichabodv wrote:OD: 1" ID: 5/8" That would make wall thickness 3/16"

I think you meant a wall thickness of 3/8", but that's just a minor correction. It looks like they used some type of Jubilee clip to hold the original bladder in place, so it might be possible to use the same one for LRT. However, if it can't be readjusted, then you'll just have to use another Jubilee clip, which might not fit properly.

If you do get this to work, then it's possible to create something much more powerful than a stock CPS 2000, but with the legendary appearance of a standard one. If you're using LRT, make sure you cut it to the right length. Good luck with your repair/possible upgrade.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue May 30, 2006 10:04 pm

Thanks for the measurements. This verifies one thing I had assumed with good reason - the CPS 2000's bladder is extremely thick. Luckily, I have found the exact combination to get a thicker bladder that should have at least approximately the same amount of power.

Buy one foot of each of these tubes from McMaster-Carr: 5234K56 and 5234K62. This will cost you about $10 and shipping. The second tube is larger and you will stack that tube over the smaller inner tube which will replace the original damaged tube.

Also, definitely buy a few bike inner tubes if you want some more power out of this system. I do not doubt that the two tubes I suggest would give you power on the level of a CPS 2000, but just in case they do not or you want more power, you should also try the tubes.

@ SilentGuy: He definitely means wall thickness because wall thickness equals (OD - ID)/2.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue May 30, 2006 11:09 pm

Oh, sorry about that :rolleyes: ...I must have forgotten to divide by two. No grudges, I hope?

That's strange...the OD of 5234K56 is 7/8", while the ID of 5234K62 is 1". I would have thought the ID of the larger tube should be slightly less than the OD of the smaller tube, but I guess if this is what works, it will works. Experience counts in things like this...

Is it practical to apply three layers of LRT? I'm assuming not, or you would have recommended that rather than what I'm assuming to be the stronger bike tubing.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue May 30, 2006 11:12 pm

That's strange...the OD of 5234K56 is 7/8", while the ID of 5234K62 is 1". I would have thought the ID of the larger tube should be slightly less than the OD of the smaller tube, but I guess if this is what works, it will works. Experience counts in things like this...


Sliding a tube over another slightly smaller one is easy. Sliding a tube over a larger one however is nearly impossible. That was completely intentional and I'm glad it worked out that well. ;)

As for three layers of LRT, that's completely possible. The problem would be finding a tube with an ID over an inch. I've even emailed manufaturers about larger tubes like that, and the response always is "we don't make latex tubes that large."

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue May 30, 2006 11:18 pm

Yes, I was actually checking the McMaster-Carr site right now... and I realized that you had identified the two largest ID tubes of LRT with as thick a layer as possible. Is it possible to downsize, possibly decreasing the PC capacity but definitely increasing the resistance? Then again, bike tubing is an easier, cheaper (if used), and larger option, so I can see why you use it now.

Also, do you just put the Jubilee clips on the innermost layer and let the top layer(s) slide over the clamps?

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue May 30, 2006 11:21 pm

Yes it is possible to downsize the tubing size. In fact, that's precisely what I had done. He reported the ID of the tube as 5/8" and given the lack of a good 5/8" ID tube, I had used a slightly smaller 1/2" ID tube.

I doubt that you will be able to get a smaller piece of tubine stretched over a far larger barb however, which is why I opted only for a slightly smaller piece of tubing. He'll likely have a little trouble getting the tubing on, but not as much as he would trying to get a 3/8" ID tube over.

Yes, the tubing clamps only go on the inner layer. Typically there isn't enough room for the larger tubing to slide over the clamps however, so I just let the tubing stop at the clamp and duct tape it on to prevent it from moving.

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Do not ask me water gun questions by email or PM. Please post the question at the forum. Private questions and suggestions are welcome by PM and email. Also, I do not sell or buy water guns online.

Ichabodv
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Post by Ichabodv » Wed May 31, 2006 11:36 am

At what point do you get so much resistance that the pump will no longer inflate the tube?

Ichabodv
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Post by Ichabodv » Wed May 31, 2006 11:46 am

I just ordered the tubing. I've been taking pictures and making notes. I'll keep everyone posted as to my progress. Thanks for the help!

=>Silentguy: Nah, takes a lot to bother me :)

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed May 31, 2006 8:28 pm

With LRT, because it creates constant force, the pump resistance won't increase--though at some point, the bladder might actually rupture. However, if you have large PVC tubing as a cover and if you use common sense, I don't think that should be a problem.

Ichabodv
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Post by Ichabodv » Wed May 31, 2006 8:29 pm

You are NOT going to believe this, I placed that tubing order this morning and it arrived the same day! WOW!

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed May 31, 2006 8:34 pm

Wow, that is quite amazing. However, it probably depends on your location relative to the McMaster-Carr warehouse(s)--I'm near central East Coast. I need to check the site just to see where they ship from...but thanks for pointing that out.

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