NEW Message Board- by ZOCCOZ

Discussion of other water gun websites.
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ZOCCOZ
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:15 pm

joannaardway wrote:
Rerhaps someone of the male gender would care to explain why this appeals.
.

According so sociol0gical statistics, in western societey, men are only considered relevant if they have financial wealthy, while women are only considered relevant if they are physicaly atractive. With that in mind, males and females have been raised from birth to focus on certain things. At least that the sociology explaintion. Science sais its genetics and instincts. Perhaps its a combo of both. Other than that, I can't realy answer your question.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:25 pm

I'm dropping my side of the debate. You won't find me there, no offense to you, so I guess it's the viewers' choice. I'm saying that this doesn't have to be a major part of Soakerdom, but since it really isn't to my knowledge, I'm not bothered.

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Post by joannaardway » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 pm

I was never instructed about physically attractive being most important. And if I was, I've forgotten it.

Sure - I know the concepts, but to me, personality is the most important.

A picture cannot convey that to me.

Not to say that I never consider physical appearance - I have to put up with hormones too - just different ones.
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:32 pm

I'm dropping my side of the debate. You won't find me there, no offense to you, so I guess it's the viewers' choice. I'm saying that this doesn't have to be a major part of Soakerdom, but since it really isn't to my knowledge, I'm not bothered.

I think in that case, there is nothing to worry about. Its just 2 forum sections among 35 forum sections in the WaterGun rates -R forum, which happens to be one of the smallest forums in the net when it comes to members. Unlike retail models, it won't change Soakerdom in any major way.

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Post by ZOCCOZ » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:42 pm

joannaardway wrote:I was never instructed about physically attractive being most important. And if I was, I've forgotten it.

Sure - I know the concepts, but to me, personality is the most important.

A picture cannot convey that to me.

Not to say that I never consider physical appearance - I have to put up with hormones too - just different ones.

You be suprised who shallow the general male psyce is. Women aswell, since wanting financial stability/cash is not any less shallow. Personality is more a bonus point when looking for someone, if examined the statistsics. Sure, every guys says personality first, while every gal sais they want a guy with sense of humor. But stand up comedians are not babe magnets, and you won't see any social workers at a FHM magazine. A professor in cultural studies prity much summed it up once: "Nowdays its all about looks and cash."

[Edit]; I unintentionaly did a doublepost.

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DX
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Post by DX » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:41 pm

I think I am very much aware that Women have no interest in soakers. I'm prity sure the models on the images had to be payed to hold a soaker. Sure, isoaker said that women like soakers, but I think his local area is the harsch exeption. In any case, the images on the forum are more there for shock value.
Well then, there are two harsh exceptions. Waterbridge recruits women fighters. However, I usually dissuade them by describing getting shot at by pneumatic artillery... :p We have a single woman on the RM roster, but she has not ever fought.
The retail soakers are of questionable quality, so a forum that is of questionable quality seems adequate. A Degenerate Forum for degenerate retail times. Does soakerdom need it? Who knows. But it is a new expression for contemporary times, and therfore not irrelenant.
While I would like to have a forum where we all talk in exitement about Flash Floods and Blazers, it does not reflect my view. I am not exited about what Water Guns have to offer at the moment. I am jaded, bored, sarcastic, disapointed and even resentful towards contemporary soakers. A Degenerate forum reflects my view about the current status of soakers.
Why not sever your chains to Hasbro and join the Revolution? :p People get that message wrong though-it is not specific to SM and does not promote SM as a site. It promotes ideas that SM is run on, one of which is retail independence. There are two kinds of people who are not satisfied with the times: those who do something and those who do nothing. "Join the Revolution" is a call to action rather than complaint. Falling stock soaker quality is opening up huge holes waiting to be exploited with innovation. These are exciting times in the tech lab and on the battlefield!

I have the capacity to be the most cynical person on the forums, but right now, in such bad stock soaker times, am one of the most optimistic here. Yes, Duxburian is actually showing an optimistic mood, which is a rara avis. You're showing the same defeatist attitude that I had last year, and it doesn't help anyone or anything.
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:22 am

Duxburian wrote: Why not sever your chains to Hasbro and join the Revolution? :p People get that message wrong though-it is not specific to SM and does not promote SM as a site. It promotes ideas that SM is run on, one of which is retail independence. There are two kinds of people who are not satisfied with the times: those who do something and those who do nothing. "Join the Revolution" is a call to action rather than complaint.

I already did, with a certain counter-culture forum. A link to that forum would be somewhere around here...oh we are on it now. :D
Arts has a different method in rebelling than Engeneering.

I haven't bought a hasbro retail soakers since 2004. Plus my modded soakers are about 5 in numbers now. However, K-modding or adding large tanks never was my style of rebelling, and only serves for intellectual and practical use. Posting adult theme soaker images with questionalble taste, while Hrasbro produces pre-teen soakers, is my way of rebelling however. ;) Hasbro only targets kids, while I do the oposite.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Silence » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:59 am

Okay, so maybe I'm not finished yet...

How does posting content that is inappropriate and even irrelevant to soaking help? I really don't see the point of it, and as I said earlier, it doesn't really help us or anybody else in any way. Having such content is definitely not rebelling against poor quality soakers, and especiallly not in the context Duxburian has been referring to.

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Post by ZOCCOZ » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:03 am

The point of rebelling/resistence/whatever one want to call it is mainly just to show non-cooperation. With hasbro hogging 99.99..99% of soaker users globaly, none of us can realy change something about that. So major change is not the pure defenition of resistance. If that would be so, Dadaism, Expressionism, Naturalism or other resistance movements would not qualify as such, which they do of course.

Adult theme soaker images is the anti-thesis of hasbros current kid soaker theme. Therfore it qualifies as concious resistance. At least thats what "revolution" means to me after taking countless art history courses and writing countless papers on conflicting ideological and cultural movements.
I should point out that my resentment towards contemporary soakers is not that I don't have powerfull soakers, but what Hasbro SS department did to Larami's once mighty toy line that I realy use like. Hasbro's department wrecked it, and they act all self-rightious about it. So I am going to show what I think now about their soakers by degenerating their funktion.

As I mentioned, Art rebells different than engeneering.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DX » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:42 am

Art can be anything. Therefore art cannot rebel because art is already rebelling and conforming at the same time, two opposites which cancel each other out. So art isn't doing anything, although it's not doing nothing either, since my friends and I proved that "nothing" cannot exist. Therefore, with art not doing anything or nothing, it cannot help you here. :p

The point of rebelling is not to not show cooperation. That's how you rebel, not why. There must be a bigger goal, some kind of action that can be taken by what you're rebelling against. And you don't need major change. Gradual change can make a difference. One person out of billions making one action out of trillions can make a difference.

Adult content is a weird way to rebel against dropping soaker quality. The normal inverse of small and weak is big and powerful. Therefore the normal inverse of small and weak soakers is big and powerful soakers. And how do you get big and powerful soakers? Right...

I have reached true independence from Hasbro already. I don't care what they did, didn't do, or will do. I care more about a grain of sand on a beach on an uninhabited island in Micronesia than I do about what Hasbro is doing. Heck, they could make no soakers one year and I wouldn't be affected personally. That would actually give people an excuse to fight with soakers rather than talk excessively about them.

I'm not using anything other than simple logic here. That's all you need in life, other than money, status, and happiness. ;)
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:24 am

Art can be anything. Therefore art cannot rebel because art is already rebelling and conforming at the same time, two opposites which cancel each other out. So art isn't doing anything, although it's not doing nothing either, since my friends and I proved that "nothing" cannot exist. Therefore, with art not doing anything or nothing, it cannot help you here.

I don't think it works that way. I seriously believe that you would have a hard time prooving that Art can not be used to rebel. Especialy to Art critics or artists. You are using math logic to arts which simply is a big "no no". I am not saying that Art itself is a rebelling concept, but that it certainlt can be used for rebelling agendas. Most art works historicaly have been used for rebelling agendas.

That's how you rebel, not why. There must be a bigger goal, some kind of action that can be taken by what you're rebelling against. And you don't need major change. Gradual change can make a difference. One person out of billions making one action out of trillions can make a difference.
Art is fairly individualistic. Certain messeges don't need a large following. You won't hear an arguement from me that Socio-Economic rebellion needs something more active and direct than art, however Soaker users aren't important enough for me to do any sort of great physical action. For all I care newcomers can marry and start kids with Flashfloods. I simply could not care less. My beef is what hasbro has done to one of my childhood favorites. The Forums new ideology simply has only to do with my personal view about hasbro's change to Laramis line. Nothing else. I don't buy contemporary hasbro models, I do now modds, so according to your defenition, I would be already activly part in your version of rebelling against hasbro. Just that to me, its not enough stylisticaly.
Adult content is a weird way to rebel against dropping soaker quality. The normal inverse of small and weak is big and powerful. Therefore the normal inverse of small and weak soakers is big and powerful soakers. And how do you get big and powerful soakers? Right...

I'm not using anything other than simple logic here. That's all you need in life, other than money, status, and happiness.

Anti-thesis can go different ways. The evolution of abstract art would be the best evidence. I certainly still do the Big Powerfull soaker promoting thing, however it has been done(ICE BLUE COMBAT). And while I plan to do a "Powerbased Review site" later this year, very literaly actualy, there are other counter-movements to explore. The Mature soaker theme would be one of them. I am not counter-attacking low power only, but hasbro's new age group favorite which did their part on hasbro getting away with it. The Mature Theme has multiple symbolic angles.

One thing people have to keep in mind, Art isn't always about logic and common sense. And that can be sometimnes a very good thing. Thinking outside of the box or standards, sometimes means thinking outside of logic and rationality. The Brechtian Alienation effect would be one example.
Last edited by ZOCCOZ on Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DX » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:31 am

I don't think it works that way. I seriously believe that you would have a hard time prooving that Art can not be used to rebel. Especialy to Art critics or artists. You are using math logic to arts which simply is a big "no no". I am not saying that Art itself is a rebelling concept, but that it certainlt can be used for rebelling agendas. Most art works historicaly have been used for rebelling agendas.

You know that I'm just poking fun with the anything-nothing-something stuff. I mean, one of the most famous paintings of the Revolution was propoganda for the Patriot cause.

I'm actually not taking the argument all that seriously, because I don't really know what I want to argue. Anything really can be art, heck, you could call the big mound of PVC in my basement "art." However, CG nudes, at least to InvisionFree, would be porn, hence why the links had to be removed on SM or they could shut down the forum. And stuff like that only alienates that younger age group. Like it or not, they will be older one day and they are the ones who will be carrying the torch. Most people tend not to care what happens after they leave something, but I do. What we do now, down to our most basic actions, will define how people soak in the future. Do we want to put future generations off soaking by completely shunning their age group? After a lot of digging through memories, I have determined that I first picked up a soaker in 1995. I was 6 years old. I joined online soaking as a Freshman, a 13 year old. A young one like the newer crowd here. Say I joined in the future instead. Soaker porn, contempt for my age group, forget this, I'm gone. And a whole wealth of other things go as well. For every 10 n00bs, there is usually a member of great value. Putting up with the n00bs can be well worth the trouble.

Kinda random, but why is there always an asterisk by your username?
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Post by ZOCCOZ » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:07 am

Duxburian wrote:However, CG nudes, at least to InvisionFree, would be porn, hence why the links had to be removed on SM or they could shut down the forum?

I expect that they will do that eventualy at my forum.
And stuff like that only alienates that younger age group. Like it or not, they will be older one day and they are the ones who will be carrying the torch.

I am sure it will alienate them, however by the time they are 19-20 they quit soaking anyways. And when they get older than pre-teens, they will get over the alienation. Its like kids who are mad at adults who won't let them drive. It won't turn them of driving once they get to the age. No one realy should loose interst on soakers over a forum. If they do, they should toughen up.

Do I want to put future generations off soaking by completely shunning their age group? Sure, why not. What made me like soakers in the past is a thing of the past. From the pop-art design of the packages, to the early comercials to the experience as a kid using state of the art soakers. Those are certain unique things that won't come back and won't reapear. And future users are not part of that, and therfore have no relevance to me. They are welcome to reminice with me about the 90s soakers, but that is their choice. Sure, it sounds cold and jerky, but thats how things are. Not to mention, pre-teens should not be on those forums anyways, so insulting them on the forums is what they get from breaking the rules. ;)

I don't know why I have that asterix. I thought everyone has that on their screen. Interesting that others can see it to.

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Post by isoaker_com » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:34 pm

Do I want to put future generations off soaking by completely shunning their age group? Sure, why not. What made me like soakers in the past is a thing of the past. From the pop-art design of the packages, to the early comercials to the experience as a kid using state of the art soakers. Those are certain unique things that won't come back and won't reapear. And future users are not part of that, and therfore have no relevance to me. They are welcome to reminice with me about the 90s soakers, but that is their choice. Sure, it sounds cold and jerky, but thats how things are. Not to mention, pre-teens should not be on those forums anyways, so insulting them on the forums is what they get from breaking the rules.
If you're caught in the past and have little care for the future generation of soaker users, your value in the present is extremely limited.

I'm presently torn to whether or not remove links to this 'R'-rated forum. Putting a sign on saying 'not for kids', and 'R-rated' is a good way to actually attract minors, IMO, to exploring, especially when there really isn't a good means to verify age during the forum registration process. I enjoy 'sexy' or 'manly' soaker-user imagery, but once crossing the line into the R-rated territory (I suppose next is X-rated soakers), the soaker part is no longer the focus.

Meh...

The choice to run such a set of forums is your own choice. I'm just not too sure I shall continue to link there.

:cool:
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:08 pm

Even in the light of all this artistic discussion, I can't see how this helps us in any way. As Duxburian said, R-rated content on a soaker site does not directly address the problem at hand, and might even distract the younger audiences who are the ones who get sucked in by Hasbro's gimmicks.

The * next to ZOCCOZ's name signified that he was a hidden user, but I think he got rid of that option now. Formerly, the symbol next to his name (usually gray for inactive or yellow for active) was red, but now it isn't--so I guess he switched so others can see him on the forums.

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