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Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:08 pm
by solar00
Today I tried a little waterfight with our neighbors.
I thought it would be a nice idea to intimidate them with two monsterXL's (which worked in the first place) but these things are so heavy when filled that the fight was a very short one.

When both monsters' pressurse chambers were empty I became the main target (they didn't even give me the time to reload)

How do others use two large guns at the same time?

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:17 pm
Normally, we don't. Keep one filled, and the other one is like a backup. If you really want to, use the 2100 or 4100 as a backup for your MXL or CPS 2000. They have longer shot times than the 2000/MXL, so they make good backups

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:13 pm
by SSCBen
I have to agree with CROC. Generally I don't use two water guns at once. Sometimes it's useful to aim at two different targets, but I'd use smaller water guns in those cases. Two Monster XLs are just overkill. One would be plenty. ;)

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:17 am
by solar00
Tried again yesterday, now using cps2000 and cps2500 combo, this time things were a lot better.
Because these guns are not as heavy as the MXL's it relatively easy to carry and use two of them together
I used the 2000 as primary and the 2500 with 5x setting as backup, so I was was able to hold them off with the 2500 while pumping the 2000.

(the 2500 makes an excellent replacement for the 4100)

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:00 am
by MarsGlorious
Well, I would go with a primary and secondary weapon. The primary being a CPS, and a secondary being a smaller weapon. As long as they both have a strap. I've been working with the idea of belt buckles for some time.

It works quite well with a Max-D 3000. The Max-D 3000 is really small (also really crap :D ). I might use that in the event I run out of water on the primary. Well the Max-D 3000 would probably run out of water in 5 seconds.... OK. Maybe I won't that, but I still like the belt buckle idea. Perhaps a Colossus Arctic Blast. That's pretty good.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:16 am
by cantab
If trying to carry two heavy weapons tires you and slows you down too much, then simply don't! As you (solar00) said, CPSes 2000 and 2500 worked well. Attempting to dual-wield MXL's is generally considered silly.
Also good is one backpack blaster. This can be either primary or backup depending on what suits; either way, you can carry more water more easily. The SC PowerPak could be a good backup provided the fight's not going to last too long.
If the weight of a full backpack still bothers you, then don't fill it all the way!
In my fights (usually small OHK skirmishes) I often don't even bother with two blasters, mainly because I lack a good system to hold the second one. But also because there are often non-water weapons allowed too. A bag full of throwables (tennis balls or rolled up papers usually) thus works well as a secondary for me. You might find water bombs work similarly if you can avoid trouble with bursting; Also I like to be fast-moving, so a typical weapon for me is an XP 105 or 240. I'll use heavier stuff sometimes though, mainly because always being the runner gets tiring.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:39 pm
by C-A_99
Yeah, unless you're a big rambo type guy who can run and gun w/ 2 heavies, don't even bother. 1 XL plus pistol and refill bottles should be plenty, though if you're in a soakfest the refill bottles won't be as much help. If theres a hose + QFD around, there shouldn't be any reason you get gunned up on while refilling as you could just fill one XL while using the other to defend, then vice versa.

I say, get experienced with smaller weapons first, including dual wielding them. If you can handle 2 2500 sized cannons and keep them pressurized at the same time, try that out. (though obviously you'll need a teammate who's faster and more mobile to cover you)

Oh, and even in soakfests, use tap shots. Dual wielding 2000's, 2500's, XL's, and other short-shot time blasters requires more tactical awareness of everything going on. Unloading a whole pressure chamber at once with those types guns is bad enough. Unloading both of them while dual wielding is just plain stupid. Seriously, that dual 11X nozzle is 40 pumps gone in 2 seconds. Now with 2 XL's, thats 4 11X streams, the hard work of 80 pumps gone in the same 2 seconds! Plus if your opponents can dodge at all, chances are most of that shot is wasted. Use tap shots, use smaller nozzles (preferably just one), and most of all, maintain pressure! There is no reason you should go below 1/2 to 3/4 pressure for more than 4-5 sec in any given water war with any blaster. (well, except for the FF/AB perhaps since emptying the PC is unavoidable when using the flood attacks, but its still good general rule of thumb to follow, and the FF/AB can get to near-maximum range in just a few pumps, making it easy to strike back after ambushing w/ a riot blast)

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:56 pm
by Night Shadow
I have a way of using many guns at a time but it limits your mobility and make you tire out more quickly. I had a duffel bag with 2 small guns and one medium one, all fully loaded, while I carried the main weapon (the large gun) in my arms. If I ever needed to switch weapons, I'd unzip the bag (since the sling was right over my shoulder, I could access it without much difficulty with my other arm) and put one gun in and take out another. I also stored waterballoons this way, but then the more filled ones popped inside the bag and that wasn't good. What I did was practical and allows you to pack many heavy guns, but be aware that the heavier your armaments, the more uncomfortable the shoulder that supports the bag will be after the battle.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:21 am
by Silence
Wow, that's pretty hardcore. I've never gone with more than one water gun, and when I do, the second one is just an extra pistol that would just be lying around otherwise. (We tend to share a stockpile of our water guns, that is, all the ones we can find.)

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:41 am
by Night Shadow
Well I only did it because we were playing a cops-and-robbers type game. It was my 2 friends against me and they were the cops. They only had small guns and I had all that since I just robbed the gun shop. But I'm never doing that again because it's just way too much.

And yeah that was the first time I'd ever gone with more than one gun. It was a pretty wierd but fun experience.

Ironically they still managed to beat me even with my heavy armament. Must be because I don't have water fights a lot and am not at all skilled with shooting this side, then spinning around and shooting the other (they outsmarted me and attacked from 2 sides so I had to keep spinning and firing), and also due to my lack of experience and foresight I forgot to fill any of the guns in the bag, meaning they were all useless. In the next game when it was my friend's turn to be the guy who robs the gun shop, he totally beat me and my other friend. Maybe being smart enough to fill the guns in the bag and picking a spot that couldn't be attacked from 2 sides helped.

Before and after that I never used more than 1 gun in a battle. It's way too hardcore for me.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:43 pm
by Silence
Well, I actually don't see any merit in having more than one gun. I'd prefer one CPS cannon over two smaller water guns, just for the extra range. And two people with one gun each are better than one person with two guns.

In chess, experienced players sometimes set up huge sacrifices involving their queens in return for a bunch of the opponent's pieces. It's counterintuitive; they might trade 2 pawns and 1 queen (losing 11 points) for 2 bishops and 1 knight (gaining 9 points). Why? Because separating that power is important, and among pieces (which doesn't include pawns), the opponent lost more. Multiple pieces have better board coverage and can't be killed off in one shot.

Similarly, in water warfare, with two people you can flank the opponent or set up a crossfire. They can cover for each other, too. In any imaginable encounter, I'd rather find another player than pick up that last water gun myself. :p

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:39 pm
by cantab
However, I think in most teams, weapons outnumber people. Two people with two guns each are probably better than two people with one gun each :-P Assuming they have the skill to use those two guns; skilled people can duel wield and at least hold off two opponents, more effectively than if they had only one gun themselves. If, however, one doesn't have those skills (I don't) then it's not really worth taking the extra gun unless it's going to be a long war.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:01 pm
by DX
It really depends on the situation. In almost all circumstances, I'd still rather have one gun a person than two a person, even if they're all good guns. Positioning can naturally help you hold off two enemies [sometimes more] at the same time. Provided you know when to bend your formations and how, and given room to maneuver, duel wielding could actually cut your effectiveness. Normally, when in a situation when you'd have to hold off multiple enemies, you either want speed and mobility [like in a field] or agility [like behind a tree]. I find reflex actions to be better when wielding a single gun. A user's speed varies based upon strength, but even the strongest guy on the field probably sprints faster with one gun than two [unless one is in a backpack].

But duel wielding comes in very handy in an ambush, you get two enemies in one go. It also helps if you're trying to cover a tight angle or bottleneck, simply because you can pour more water through it faster and keep the enemy at bay longer. Also, if you do have a guy that is a skilled duel wielder, you can empower them on the spot with a weapon swap. As in when you see a situation when giving them two guns would shift the balance, do a swap right on the field.

Err...slaps self...trying not to write book posts anymore

Summary -

Duel wielding has some good specific uses

Duel wielding is often not great for one's armament throughout an entire war

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:04 am
by Night Shadow
Well I wasn't dual wielding. Technically I only carried my main weapon while the rest were in the bag that was over my shoulder. And when people say numbers outweigh weapons, they're correct. I could have 4 fully loaded CPS guns in that bag but if I'm attacked from 2 sides and I have to keep spinning around, I'm drenched. And on a side note I don't have any CPS guns. Wonder where I can get some.

Re: Exhausted after waterfight

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:22 am
by Specter
And on a side note I don't have any CPS guns. Wonder where I can get some.
you can look at garage sales. or the "best" place to look is ebay.