Thunder Wars and water balloons

[MarsGlorious]

Camping? Oh Dammit!
I've got a feeling this Timbermine place is going to be good.

Timbermine doesn't have water sources if I've been informed correctly. But it is close to a place that does.

Silent Guy, what's your opinion on water bombs? Thunderwars uses them but I've been thinking getting rid of them because they produce too much mess.

Also, I think I might of got three more people into the game.

[Silence]

I don't really use water balloons much. But from my experience, they're probably useful if (1) you have good aim and (2) if you're surprising an enemy, especially at a distance. It's quite hard to hit a moving enemy, and there's no point in using water balloons if you're so close that you're within water gun range.

Or you could just use water balloons to keep the enemies' heads down.

But I really don't see those situations happening much. And I don't use water balloons mainly because they're a hassle. My suggestion is to try using them in a Thunder War to see for yourself.

[C-A_99]

For supplying issues, you may want to find some large reservoirs/tanks to carry around and serve as refill station. Another possiblity is having everyone go heavy, each person carrying their own water bottles, etc. The latter method should work as long as there's at least a restroom or tap around the area. Otherwise, use both methods I guess.

As for balloons, I currently use them sparingly, and usually try to limit them to people who are good with them. We've also tried to use the pneumatic Douchenator-style launcher for artillery but have never had a successful strike before, partly due to lack of testing and familiarization of trajectories on my part.

[MarsGlorious]

I was expecting a reply like that. I was thinking of getting rid of water bombs or Aqua Grenades as we call them. But now I think that we should just discourage them. They really are incredible over-rated. So thanks on that one.

Also about the supply thing. I already had planned to bring water containers into Timbermine to serve as artificial refill stations. I was even thinking of creating a large container that hooks up to a tree and and has valve and hose connected. This would fill the soakers just like a refill station. As Thunderwars spreads out, I knew we would come to need such contraptions so already designed stuff like that. Whether I can be bothered creating such devices is a different thing.

In the end the main way to refill will be water bottles (Ammo Canisters).

[Silence]

In the end the main way to refill will be water bottles (Ammo Canisters).

Are you guys going to be carrying around individual water bottles, or will they be stocked at bases/refill locations? If you're carrying the water bottles yourselves, you might as well create a backpack reservoir using a trash bag or a solar shower (which is essentially a heavy-duty bag).

If anybody has access to a vehicle, which is unlikely unless a parent volunteers, you could port in much larger tanks of water.

[MarsGlorious]

Well both. The Aqua Canisters would probably be in some basket and would be carried around the battlefield. If someone wanted to go off away from the canister basket, they would probably take a canister with them.

There'd probably be main refill stations and portable refill depots. That's the way things generally work out. If we are going to have a battle at Timbermine then we will need access to vehicles because Timbermine is located some distance away.

[DX]

I'm kinda late to the party, but...

Water balloons go in and out of style depending on how far your progress. Over a long period of time, they should start out as generally useful, become impractical, and then regain value for strategic uses. In the 2nd Battle of Ridgewood in 2004, the RM deployed 160 filled water balloons at our earthworks on Reed Hill. By the Battle of Fallen Limbs in 2005, neither team used water balloons except in launchers. Their value returned in the middle 2007 season. Basically, each team developed its own strategy for effective use of water balloons. Waterbridge used them in pincer ambushes and the RM used them in ghost warfare, both only at the Goffle park for some reason.

I've found that the balloons are worth having, but only for special use situations. For example, pincer ambushing. If you can trap the enemy, water balloons may be deadly at middle ranges with them unable to move effectively. Filled water balloons are best for that use, seeing as you need a sizable number and you need to bring them out quickly.

Personally, my favorite use is in "ghost" warfare. I haven't got a real name for the type of fighting [ghost is a placeholder], it's a strategy revolving around tricks and surprise, which may include surprise right in the face of the enemy. One core idea is to create an ability from nothing. There's an age-old water balloon strat of filling a balloon straight from the end of a capable water gun. In a "ghost" campaign, you might employ this tactic in such a way that you get the enemy to think "WTF? Where'd that come from?" The enemy knows all you have is your gun, yet you filled a balloon with your gun from behind a tree [they couldn't see the process] and then nailed someone with it. Unused water balloons take up so little space that you can hide them in your pocket and no one will know how the hell you managed to throw them without having them! Even if the enemy later catches on, they won't ever be able to know for sure when the next one is coming.

Oh and obviously give everyone on the team the same ability if they have guns with nozzles thin enough to fill balloons from. Aim should not matter, if a player sucks at throwing balloons, improve their aim. If a player naturally has excellent aim, utilize their advantage, but you don't want to become dependent on them.

As for refilling, I would suggest a mixture of personal water bottles and hidden caches in strategic [and not-so-strategic] locations. Each player should carry enough water to cover a full refill, or a player should be able to cover another who does not have extra water. Don't concentrate the water, spread it around the team. If you spread it around, anyone will be able to refill at any given moment independently, including in the middle of a firefight. In prolonged battles, being able to refill on the spot is a highly useful ability. Sending people off to refill at a source or having the entire team retreat to fill could be a waste of a good opportunity, especially if you've got the enemy trapped in a full defensive position.

Caches are obviously more useful to your team than refill stations or other sources. Sources may be used by your enemy as well, but hidden caches are exclusively yours as long as they remain hidden. I'd place enough water to cover an entire team refill at minimum and place them both in likely and unlikely locations. Obviously put some where you think you'll need them and some where you think you won't need them. Mix up the styles as well, they should be hidden with different stuff [leaves vs rocks vs bushes vs whatever].

That was longer than I intended, but I'm well-known for wicked-long replies, so it's not much of a surprise hehe.

[Silence]

Good to have you back Duxburian, for however long it may be...since they actually got a real answer this time.

I guess your "ghost" tactics and pincer movements are what I was hinting at...using water balloons for surprise and preferably on slow-moving or still targets. You do bring up new thoughts about aim and who/how to equip water balloons, though.

[MarsGlorious]

You covered almost everything Duxburion. You almost covered my entire opinion about the subject. I had planned for Recon and Ranger units to place hidden weapons and supply caches all over the battlefield.

I also plan to phase out water bombs to point where they are only used in ambushes and enemy advances to shift the odds a little and give the enemy another thing to worry about. But you should never really on water bombs in tactics. They are naturally not reliable. About 70% of all grenade throws miss their target in my opinion. They are really only good when you have a good shot atthe enemy or you throwing them in a volley.

Me and StormGlorious were planning to produce grenade belts that would hold up to 3 water bombs just for advantage sack.

Now that you have noticed this subject DX, I'd like to ask about your use of PGLs (Pneumatic Grenade Launchers). We currently have one prototype. I talked about it before. It's constructed out of polypropylene and fires lemons huge distances.

The problem is that it's barrel cannot hold water bombs larger than 6cm (2").
Until recently the gun couldn't fire water bombs at all because the force of weapon, burst the projectiles on fire. Then we put in water before putting in the water bombs and it appears to fix the problem. I'm not really much of fan of using Styrofoam cups. Too much mess.

[sbell25]

Until recently the gun couldn't fire water bombs at all because the force of weapon, burst the projectiles on fire.

The best wadding is to try and find a lid of some sort that fits in the barrel. Works the same as a Styrofoam cup but is reusable. For my cannon back in New Zealand which had a 2" PVC barrel, the lids from Lynx deodorant and Gillette shaving gel worked well. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of Polypropylene pipe, so you'll have to experiment. If you're really stuck, plastic bags are OK as well, but are not as efficient and more prone to break the water bomb than a good lid.

EDIT: If you try this method, it's probably a good idea to put tape over the opening of the lid. I found that sometimes the force would push the water bomb into the lid, and both bomb and lid would sail off into the distance. This obviously increases the casualty rate of your lids.

[StormGlorious]

Hey Guys I'm back from an excellent camping trip.

To mars- I/ve come up with a superb new homemade design. I'll maybe show it to you later this week.

To everyone else- Don't you think this water bomb topic should be made into an individual thread.

[Silence]

I've moved the posts to a new thread. I agree the Thunder Wars thread was getting rather off-topic, but I put that in the title of this thread since things are tied to your water wars.

Welcome back, and I hope you had fun camping!