Super Soaker Central forums

uman · 05-03-2004, 08:48 AM

whoops guess I diddnt read that

RacerSoaker445 · 05-03-2004, 09:25 AM

You're curving the laws Doom

Xray · 05-03-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RacerSoaker445@May 3 2004, 09:25 AM
You're curving the laws Doom

And because you can bend the law, patents -

-Long
-Useless
-Can be broken easily
-Extremely Technical to avoid the above problem
-Expensive
-Waste of my Time

... On average it costs an inventor $5000+ dollars to get a patent, mainly because you need a patent lawyer (they charge $100+/hour) to make your patent work and not conflict with the other patents.

BlueSmudge · 05-03-2004, 06:18 PM

hey guys, we are all using latex tubing to make our CPS blasters. not the rubber stuff that they use. wouldn't that bypass the patents? its like the blazer with it's diahrame tech. I don't know if that is based off CPS but it probably it. Tell me what you t hink.

Ben · 05-03-2004, 07:13 PM

Diaphram is in my opinion an inferior but acceptable CPS substitute that should be avoided in homemades. It would be very hard to make a homemade version too.

My dad actually works at the US patent office, I know all about the patent rules, I even asked him what is possible to get sued on and then decided on that. I could get a patent lawyer and then do what I want, but I'm not planning on making that kind of money or going to court.

About selling homemades with the CPS tubing, it's too close for me to consider. Same goes for using only bike tubes. That's making a slightly different patented product and then selling it, illegal as well. Many patents have statements that when summed up say, "and all similar designs" which is open to interpretation. I won't go there, the CPS stuff is easy to add anyway, I'll let you do that.

I've had this idea for a few months, I just never thought it would catch on so I thought I might make an announcement. Apparently is has caught on, I'll try to get a site with more info on what I can and can't do later, it's not going to be part of SSC, but it is going to be hosted by SSC and fund SSC's hosting as well as my own homemade development.

Btw, if someone wants me to make a homemade that shoots over 100 feet, I probably can do that for $300-$400 including the shipping. The system would use co2 and/or have a tire chuck for the people with air compressors too, it in theory should be the most powerful water gun possible, that is possible with a practical side, this gun you will be able to carry around. From all I've seen I know it would be very hard to make a gun more powerful. No one will be able to touch you with that gun.

Xray · 05-03-2004, 09:34 PM

See, your aiming straight for the high-end stuff, which is in no way bad... Its easier for you because your in the US, and large size PVC is readily availiable. It isnt possible for me to get over 2 inch PVC here... even in sch 40 it'd be extremely hard to find some 2 inch. Its because the other stuff isnt CSA approved... too bad

Anyways, when I make my homemades to sell, im aiming at the good durability, mid-power equipment, like what most people would use. Im extimating my costs to be $35-50 per gun + shipping. I'd only make a profit of like $8-10 per gun... which makes it about $6/hour for me, so your getting my 'services' for a good price.

I wondered - can I sell the gun, dissasembled? With a manual or something to put it together... Then it wouldnt be CPS, it would just be considered a mass of parts & a latex rubber tube. Id appreciate if you'd ask your dad that, or answer it for me, thanks in advance!

-blake

bunny2002sg · 05-03-2004, 11:11 PM

Erm, Doom, can we pay in instalments?

'Cause otherwise I'll take more than a year to save up THAT much money.

Ben · 05-04-2004, 04:54 AM

For the gun that shoots over 100 feet? That price shouldn't give me much any profit actually, I just was saying I could do it. I'm nearly done a $35-$45 SS 300 clone, that's the price if you make your own backpack and depending on how much parts I have on me because I won't charge for that.

Also, here's something I don't think anyone will be able to do that I can do. Well at least until I tell them how to do it, or they figure it out because you can do it with Algebra knowledge, I learned it in Pre-Calc though and applied it to soakers. I can calculate the ideal nozzle size, where the range is highest. I'll do that for all the homemades I'll sell, to ensure that you guys get the most your money can get. That also means each gun I sell will have a nozzle selector, it would be tedious to do that on a gun that doesn't have one.

You can't sell something with the intent of it being used as an SS gun is. So you can't sell it disassembled. The only thing you can do is sell it without a CPS PC and design it to work with one, that way your excuse if they get some legal action on you is that it doesn't use the technology. Even selling it like that is risky, I was considering selling all CPS guns with unglued air pressure PCs and a few extra parts that will aid in converting it to CPS to get as far away as possible from legal action.

Bunny, I doubt I could sell you a water gun cheaply. The shipping to Singapore would likely be huge and you don't want a $100 water gun do you?

bunny2002sg · 05-04-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

a $100 water gun

If it's worth my cash...

But you're right about the shipping costs...

(monotone)woe is me...

Spinner · 05-04-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bunny2002sg@May 4 2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

a $100 water gun

If it's worth my cash...

But you're right about the shipping costs...

(monotone)woe is me...

Even sending the money is nigh on impossible in his situation...

Xray · 05-04-2004, 12:02 PM

Calculating the ideal nozzle size would require a load of calculus...

You could omit a few of the variables, just as if you were calculating the time it takes for an object to fall a certain distance & ignoring air resistance & friction.

I could probably do somewhat what your doing, Doom, but it still can't be perfect. You'd have to factor in the ID of each part, the length of each tube water travels through, the pressure drop and flow-rate of the trigger valve, aswell as the PSI provided by the PC, and any water-flow obstructions within the soaker... and more

It could become quite a long equation.

-blake

Ben · 05-04-2004, 04:09 PM

No it actually does not, all you need is semi-basic Algebra, I'm only in Pre-Calc right now (and only a freshman too) and I don't know much Calculus if any. It's a very simple equation, the hardest part is making it but that's not hard if you know how.

There is no way I would go through all that to make a gun shoot farther. This is nozzle specific, based upon range tests, and nozzle diameter (prefered) or output tests, which means that air resistance is taken into consideration by the range tests, as well as the stream laminators and those do not need to be calculated because of that. It doesn't even take into consideration the ID of the pipes, that stuff is very possible, but would only be practical in a soaker design program or something like that, sounds neat though. It would be awesome to design a soaker and see all the stats before it's made, very cool.

I plan on making an article all about this new soaker physics, it's very simple and I've found it useful. However I'm not making an article just yet because I want to keep this a little trade secret for a while. I hope you don't mind, I just was thinking of it a few weeks ago and then tried it with some test data and saw it worked great, can give you a great sniping nozzle!

Neuro · 05-04-2004, 08:06 PM

*plays Can't Touch Dis*

you do realize that's more than the range of most spring airsoft pistols? I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just like, wow. now THAT's a gun to put a scope on.

RacerSoaker445 · 05-04-2004, 09:14 PM

I can't figure out a word you guys are saying! Hey, that's funny.!

Ben · 05-05-2004, 05:00 AM

Well, we know a lot I guess.

About the 100 foot range gun, it should shoot 100 feet, but then again it's pressure would be very high, it would need schedule 80 or larger PVC, 2 inch internals, the list goes on. It is a very powerful gun.

05-03-2004, 08:48 AM	#16
uman Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 35 UserID: 105	whoops guess I diddnt read that __________________ я люблю воду!

05-03-2004, 09:25 AM	#17
RacerSoaker445 Still selling stuff. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: On my tricked out PC Posts: 944 UserID: 83	You're curving the laws Doom __________________ WORKING Guns For Sale: CPS 3200, Max-D 5000, WW Glo-Blaster BROKEN Guns For Sale: CPS 1500 + 15 Balloon K-Mod, Flash Flood + 3-layer collossus & PRVD, XXP 175, WW Hornet, SS 50 More info here. Interested? PM me.

05-03-2004, 06:18 PM	#19
BlueSmudge Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 886 UserID: 97	hey guys, we are all using latex tubing to make our CPS blasters. not the rubber stuff that they use. wouldn't that bypass the patents? its like the blazer with it's diahrame tech. I don't know if that is based off CPS but it probably it. Tell me what you t hink. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------- BlueSoak.net --------------------------------------------------------------

05-03-2004, 07:13 PM	#20
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,016 UserID: 1	Diaphram is in my opinion an inferior but acceptable CPS substitute that should be avoided in homemades. It would be very hard to make a homemade version too. My dad actually works at the US patent office, I know all about the patent rules, I even asked him what is possible to get sued on and then decided on that. I could get a patent lawyer and then do what I want, but I'm not planning on making that kind of money or going to court. About selling homemades with the CPS tubing, it's too close for me to consider. Same goes for using only bike tubes. That's making a slightly different patented product and then selling it, illegal as well. Many patents have statements that when summed up say, "and all similar designs" which is open to interpretation. I won't go there, the CPS stuff is easy to add anyway, I'll let you do that. I've had this idea for a few months, I just never thought it would catch on so I thought I might make an announcement. Apparently is has caught on, I'll try to get a site with more info on what I can and can't do later, it's not going to be part of SSC, but it is going to be hosted by SSC and fund SSC's hosting as well as my own homemade development. Btw, if someone wants me to make a homemade that shoots over 100 feet, I probably can do that for $300-$400 including the shipping. The system would use co2 and/or have a tire chuck for the people with air compressors too, it in theory should be the most powerful water gun possible, that is possible with a practical side, this gun you will be able to carry around. From all I've seen I know it would be very hard to make a gun more powerful. No one will be able to touch you with that gun. __________________ Note: I am busy so if I am slow to respond, be patient. email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post but do miss some.

05-04-2004, 04:54 AM	#23
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,016 UserID: 1	For the gun that shoots over 100 feet? That price shouldn't give me much any profit actually, I just was saying I could do it. I'm nearly done a $35-$45 SS 300 clone, that's the price if you make your own backpack and depending on how much parts I have on me because I won't charge for that. Also, here's something I don't think anyone will be able to do that I can do. Well at least until I tell them how to do it, or they figure it out because you can do it with Algebra knowledge, I learned it in Pre-Calc though and applied it to soakers. I can calculate the ideal nozzle size, where the range is highest. I'll do that for all the homemades I'll sell, to ensure that you guys get the most your money can get. That also means each gun I sell will have a nozzle selector, it would be tedious to do that on a gun that doesn't have one. You can't sell something with the intent of it being used as an SS gun is. So you can't sell it disassembled. The only thing you can do is sell it without a CPS PC and design it to work with one, that way your excuse if they get some legal action on you is that it doesn't use the technology. Even selling it like that is risky, I was considering selling all CPS guns with unglued air pressure PCs and a few extra parts that will aid in converting it to CPS to get as far away as possible from legal action. Bunny, I doubt I could sell you a water gun cheaply. The shipping to Singapore would likely be huge and you don't want a $100 water gun do you? __________________ Note: I am busy so if I am slow to respond, be patient. email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post but do miss some.

05-03-2004, 09:34 PM	#21
Xray Builder of Soakers Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 68 UserID: 99	See, your aiming straight for the high-end stuff, which is in no way bad... Its easier for you because your in the US, and large size PVC is readily availiable. It isnt possible for me to get over 2 inch PVC here... even in sch 40 it'd be extremely hard to find some 2 inch. Its because the other stuff isnt CSA approved... too bad Anyways, when I make my homemades to sell, im aiming at the good durability, mid-power equipment, like what most people would use. Im extimating my costs to be $35-50 per gun + shipping. I'd only make a profit of like $8-10 per gun... which makes it about $6/hour for me, so your getting my 'services' for a good price. I wondered - can I sell the gun, dissasembled? With a manual or something to put it together... Then it wouldnt be CPS, it would just be considered a mass of parts & a latex rubber tube. Id appreciate if you'd ask your dad that, or answer it for me, thanks in advance! -blake

05-03-2004, 11:11 PM	#22
bunny2002sg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 79 UserID: 101	Erm, Doom, can we pay in instalments? 'Cause otherwise I'll take more than a year to save up THAT much money.

05-04-2004, 12:02 PM	#26
Xray Builder of Soakers Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 68 UserID: 99	Calculating the ideal nozzle size would require a load of calculus... You could omit a few of the variables, just as if you were calculating the time it takes for an object to fall a certain distance & ignoring air resistance & friction. I could probably do somewhat what your doing, Doom, but it still can't be perfect. You'd have to factor in the ID of each part, the length of each tube water travels through, the pressure drop and flow-rate of the trigger valve, aswell as the PSI provided by the PC, and any water-flow obstructions within the soaker... and more It could become quite a long equation. -blake

05-04-2004, 04:09 PM	#27
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,016 UserID: 1	No it actually does not, all you need is semi-basic Algebra, I'm only in Pre-Calc right now (and only a freshman too) and I don't know much Calculus if any. It's a very simple equation, the hardest part is making it but that's not hard if you know how. There is no way I would go through all that to make a gun shoot farther. This is nozzle specific, based upon range tests, and nozzle diameter (prefered) or output tests, which means that air resistance is taken into consideration by the range tests, as well as the stream laminators and those do not need to be calculated because of that. It doesn't even take into consideration the ID of the pipes, that stuff is very possible, but would only be practical in a soaker design program or something like that, sounds neat though. It would be awesome to design a soaker and see all the stats before it's made, very cool. I plan on making an article all about this new soaker physics, it's very simple and I've found it useful. However I'm not making an article just yet because I want to keep this a little trade secret for a while. I hope you don't mind, I just was thinking of it a few weeks ago and then tried it with some test data and saw it worked great, can give you a great sniping nozzle! __________________ Note: I am busy so if I am slow to respond, be patient. email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post but do miss some.

05-04-2004, 08:06 PM	#28
Neuro Retired Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,081 UserID: 30	plays Can't Touch Dis you do realize that's more than the range of most spring airsoft pistols? I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just like, wow. now THAT's a gun to put a scope on. __________________ "I used to care, but now I take a pill for that." You can pretty much ignore the times on that, I rarely ever have Xfire on when I play. I should, though.

05-04-2004, 09:14 PM	#29
RacerSoaker445 Still selling stuff. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: On my tricked out PC Posts: 944 UserID: 83	I can't figure out a word you guys are saying! Hey, that's funny.! __________________ WORKING Guns For Sale: CPS 3200, Max-D 5000, WW Glo-Blaster BROKEN Guns For Sale: CPS 1500 + 15 Balloon K-Mod, Flash Flood + 3-layer collossus & PRVD, XXP 175, WW Hornet, SS 50 More info here. Interested? PM me.

05-05-2004, 05:00 AM	#30
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,016 UserID: 1	Well, we know a lot I guess. About the 100 foot range gun, it should shoot 100 feet, but then again it's pressure would be very high, it would need schedule 80 or larger PVC, 2 inch internals, the list goes on. It is a very powerful gun. __________________ Note: I am busy so if I am slow to respond, be patient. email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post but do miss some.

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