I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

[C-A_99]

Cantab, some observations on a CPS 4100 contradict the idea of the PRV releasing by the PC hitting the PC casing. When taking the internals out, I managed to bust the end of the PC case off. (which was already bent pretty badly) This happened again on another 4100 (except I didn't do it that time) The PRV went off when the PC was just slightly sticking out, indicating that the PRV works based on the slight pressure increases of the bladder rather than hitting the PC walls.

On the other hand, PC hitting the casing would explain how light k-mods work well... Hmm...

[Lewis]

Hey all, wow it's been quite a long time since this kind of discussion.

To clarify a few things about PC swapping integrations:

PC swapping integrations are a form of power modification usually intended to increase range and output of a selected host gun. They are both an alternative to, and an add-on for, the K-mod or Colossus mod. PC swapping is often done for sheer convenience, as it may be completed in a fraction of the time vs a light K-mod, while providing comparable power.

Naming Convention:

Stock Name = Donor PC - zeros + Host Gun - zeros
CPS 1500 PC + CPS 1200 Host = CPS 1512

Modded Name = Donor normal K name / Host normal name
CPS 15K PC + CPS 1200 Host = CPS 15K/1200

Exceptions include CPS 1100 and CPS 2250

These have been around almost as long as the K-Mod. Early modder XN considered matching K-modded PCs with strong valves. XN's concept of High Power Limit [HPL] is still the foundation for power mods, especially this one. HPL describes the relative strength of a pressure release valve [PRV]. Guns with "high" HPL have strong valves, while guns with "low" HPL have weak ones. This determines what makes a good host gun in a PC swapping integration.

One of the vague parts of swapping integrations is that there is no such method to determine what makes a good donor PC and no means to test it. HPL of a host gun can be tested via pumping until you can't anymore. If the last pump is normal and/or squeaking is heard, the HPL is low. If the last pump hits a wall and is pretty quiet no matter how fast you pump, that's high HPL. Donor guns have no such easy indicator to PC strength. Logically the donor PC should be "strong". That could mean thick-walled or big. However, a bigger bladder may hit the case walls faster than the native one would, potentially negating the intended power increase. Generally, a thicker rubber bladder is better. As mentioned above, there is no way to really test bladder thickness. You have to know it, which drags one into the equally confusing world of water gun marks/versions.

You can't compare the PCs [or HPLs for that matter] of two models straight up [aka like CPS 2100 vs CPS 1000]. The marks of both guns will make or break an integration. For example, the PC of the CPS 2100 MK1 is both slightly larger and slightly thicker than other CPS 2100 versions. Likewise, the HPL of the MK1 is higher than the MK3 and way above that of the MK2. The CPS 2100 MK2 has one of the lowest HPLs of any water gun. The CPS 1000 has 4 marks of its own.

The actual power benefits of PC swapping integrations are extremely variable due to all the possible gun and mark matches. Nibordude's 1100 was made from a CPS 1000 MK1 PC and a CPS 2100 MK3 host. A great donor, not the best host, but stable and reliable enough for an excellent power boost. This was a very positive first impression. Modders' initial experiences with PC swapping may be related to their mark choices. A weak mark of an otherwise superior gun might produce different results than one expected. A string of MK2 encounters is probably responsible for the "umoddable" reputation of CPS 2100s before 2004. MK2s are definitely responsible for the CPS 4100 unreliability rep. There is another obstacle to measuring the power gain from the integrations - some individual guns are wildly variable. The CPS 2100 is once again in the spotlight, this time for being one of the most variable guns in range. Within just MK3s, they can shoot anywhere from around 28 to 37 feet.

In order to effectively test the power results of these integrations, the tester needs to control for mark, not just for stock and normal K-mods. That requires a crapload of CPS water guns. I do not think that anyone has ever collected all the marks of the sphericals, much less the whole CPS line. Some marks are very obscure or rare [CPS 2700 MK3 comes to mind]. Even the CPS 2100 MK1 is rare enough that there are currently no pictures of them.

[Silence]

I seem to recall the use of names like 15.21k, not 15K/2100 for K-modded, integrated blasters.

DX, does a Mk.1 CPS 2100 have a higher HPL than the average CPS 1000? Anyway, I'm surprised you still remember all this. Drenchenator's water gun marks guide, at least, doesn't mention things like the HPL.

The convenience argument for integrations over K-mods makes sense. I presume integrations also make sense if you've salvaged the bladder from a totaled donor water gun.

[Ben]

DX, if I'm not mistaken the primary claim of PC swapping/integrating is that the range will increase beyond that of either the donor or the host, but I still haven't seen any reason why this should occur for similar sized nozzles (which makes the ranges comparable). Am I reading the claims wrong? I assume there's little reason to swap PCs of relatively similar water guns like the CPS 1000 and CPS 2100 (note the word relatively... I am aware of the differences in marks) if the range did not increase beyond that of either water gun.

It's also worth noting that doing absolutely nothing as to keep stronger PCs in the original guns is more convenient than K-modding or swapping the PCs.

[steelboot]

Apparently, I have a 2100 MK3 and a 1000 MK3. I'm only going to be posting on this thread for updates on my project from now on because this discussion is turning into a "How do PC swaps work?" thread. Not that that's a bad thing. I'll still check up and read the info on this thread.

[cantab]

If the host gun has wider internal tubing, that could increase performance when a stronger donor PC is put in.

Big increases would suggest that some guns, the common donor ones most likely, have poor internals - too narrow pipes and valves, or poor or easily damaged laminators.

The biggest drawback I can see is that an integration, at best, turns two good ones into one great but one lousy. Kmodding both can give you two great guns.

[Lewis]

Ben: Yeah, if the range does not increase beyond that of the host or donor then it is not worth doing.

Silence: The 15.21K thing was confusing and was changed. And I'm not sure what the HPL of the MK1 2100 is compared against 1000s. I currently own all the 2100 marks, but have not encountered all of the 1000 marks so I couldn't tell you.

Cantab, that is why PC swaps usually are done with PCs from guns that cannot be salvaged, or are otherwise expendable. It is usually more beneficial to have a CPS 15K and a CPS 12K than a CPS 15K/1200 if both guns work perfectly.

[steelboot]

I measured the soaker's output just now. Here is the procedure I went through:

1. Shoot water out of blaster at a 270 degree angle (straight down) into a 1L water bottle. The small space at the top minimizes splashback.

2. Pour the water into 1 cup measuring cups.

3. Fire the blaster again, this time with a stopwatch at the ready to measure shot time.

4. Take the total amount of water delivered, divide it by the shot time to get (n)mL/sec output. Divide that number by 30 to get the X rating.

5. Repeat for other nozzle.

Here are the stats.

Nozzle 1:

Size: 6/16 inch
Output: 340mL/sec (11.33x)
Shot Time: 1.5 sec

Nozzle 2

Size: 1/4 inch
Output: 170mL/sec (5.66x)
Shot Time: 3 sec

note: the size of the PC, (how much water was delivered) varied in shots 1 and 2. The first shot delivered 480mL, and the second one delivered 540. To average them out, 510mL is used as the universal amount of water delivered, for the sake of consistency.

All in all, I am pleased with the results. I'm finally going to get around to drilling that water saver this week.

[cantab]

Sounds good. That said, the smaller nozzle's shot time doesn't seem great. I'm sure my stock 1200 shoots for longer, though I've never actually timed it. On the other hand it's equal to or better than my stock 2100.

[marauder_4]

I just did a PC swap today and recorded the results. I may do one or two more before I decide to release anything. It was interesting to say the least. Expect the results to be released in a webisode format on Hydrowar.