Super Soaker Central forums

Ben · 08-06-2008, 05:32 PM

The length shouldn't affect performance or durability much. It's more of a question of how much capacity you want or space you want to use. For that size, yes, 8 inches should be great.

CROC · 08-06-2008, 08:21 PM

If you go with 8", cut a circle the same size as the plug on the LRT so that when it expands, it has space for the end of it to go, allowing for further expansion. Would that not work?

Ben · 08-07-2008, 07:45 PM

That'd get an extra inch or two, yes. The location of the hole would depend on the angle the gun is held at though, so it probably wouldn't work very reliably unless you cut a slit to allow for a range of angles.

JLspacemarine · 08-08-2008, 07:21 PM

I've tested the gun with LRT today. The results are less successful than what I was expecting....

I started by using only the smaller LRT just to se how much power it has. It's kind of powerful, but not impressive. Actually, my lastest homemade spherical bladder has more kick and power than this.

So I tried to put the lager LRT over it using larger hose clamps. It has been well performing. Great shot time and between 40-50 feet of range with a nozzle on par with the CPS 2000. But the smaller LRT didn't held a long time. After a few shots It bursted completely inside the larger tubing, resulting in water stuck between the two layers of rubber tubing. Letting out the remaining water has been a bit tricky, because pulling the trigger wasn't doing anything and unscrewing the endcap at the end of the bladder didn't worked either. So I had to loose one of the tubing clamps. Fortunately I didn't got "too" wet doing this.

But, wow, the result isn't pretty:

I'm not sure of what to do now, as my LRT supply is limited. I once had the idea of a simple design modification that could be done using my spherical bladder, wich would allow an onboard reservoir of near 4 liters and a PC capacity of 900mL. But I thought that LRT was better....

Any suggestions?

Killer 7 · 08-08-2008, 07:48 PM

I had a similar problem with one of my guns. The problem was that the LRT could expand too much, and that caused it to wear out very quickly, like after two shots. So you could try making the expansion vessel smaller, or use LRT with a larger ID. I used LRT with a larger ID and have not had to change the LRT in the gun for over 7 months. any way I hope this helps.

Edit: I just read that you were using 4" ABS, if you can use three inch it would probably help alot. I know that it will kill the capacity, but having a working gun with less capacity, is better than having a gun that requires expensive repair every few shots.

Ben · 08-08-2008, 08:42 PM

That's weird because the smaller tubes I sent you were unused. The larger one had a few uses but not many.

I bet this has something to do with the clamping the larger one onto the smaller one. Killer 7 does that and you said you do that. I haven't tried that yet, and I've never experienced this problem, so I'm guessing it has something to do with that method. Reducing the expansion should solve the problem.

I'm going to take a guess as to why it happened. There is some air space between the two tubes and perhaps the pressure differential between them caused some problems. If you eliminated the air somehow it probably wouldn't break from my thinking.

JLspacemarine · 08-14-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben

I'm going to take a guess as to why it happened. There is some air space between the two tubes and perhaps the pressure differential between them caused some problems. If you eliminated the air somehow it probably wouldn't break from my thinking.

I guess youre right, clamping the larger tubing over the smaller one should be avoided then. But the only reason why I've done that is because your method described in the superCPS guide didn't worked very well: the smaller tube was expanding out of the larger one after a few pumps. Maybe I was doing it wrong though.

Anyway I thought I'd detail the design modification idea I mentioned in my last post :

The only predictable problem I see would be the weight when full, which would be very heavy. But the overall capacity and power would be good I think. As my last spherical bladder made of ballons performs much better than the first one.

aEx155 · 08-14-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLspacemarine

The only predictable problem I see would be the weight when full, which would be very heavy. But the overall capacity and power would be good I think. As my last spherical bladder made of balloons performs much better than the first one.

I did a bit of math, and according to one site, if the water you're using is around 70 degrees Fahrenheit, 4 liters should weigh around 9 pounds. I think that shouldn't be too much to handle.

cantab · 08-14-2008, 12:44 PM

The temperature makes hardly any difference, at least if the water is liquid at atmospheric pressure. (And if it's not then you've got bigger problems than the weight of the gun!)

4 l of water weighs 4 kilos. Hooray for metric!
The weight won't be an issue, unless it's heavy empty. Empty weight should ideally be below 2 kilos I reckon.
Balance is more important. I think it'll be a bit back heavy. You can rectify that by bringing the handle further back, but that might cause trouble with your trigger.

Also, I'd avoid having that vinyl tube running across outside the gun like you've shown. It will be liable to get broken. Either use rigid pipe, or route the tube differently so it's always against something more solid.

Silence · 08-14-2008, 02:07 PM

It's nice to see a good use for spherical bladders! They come in handy in cases like this, where pretty much any length of tubing would stretch too much.

I agree you may find the water gun back heavy when full (but comfortable when the reservoir is empty). But it doesn't look like you can move the grip back too much since you've already built the front assembly. The trigger wire shouldn't get in the way since you can just extend the sliding piece that the trigger is connected to.

JLspacemarine · 08-14-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantab

The weight won't be an issue, unless it's heavy empty. Empty weight should ideally be below 2 kilos I reckon.

Right now it weighs 5 pounds empty, and that's without the ABS fittings that I plan to add. That's why I thought it would be very heavy when filled with water. The balance won't be a problem though, as the gun is already front heavy when empty.

cantab · 08-14-2008, 05:58 PM

That is a touch on the heavy side, but not extreme.

Ben · 08-18-2008, 02:27 PM

How's the design modification going? I was interested in it but never seem to have made a post about it.

08-06-2008, 05:32 PM	#46
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,054 UserID: 1	Re: My CPH concept The length shouldn't affect performance or durability much. It's more of a question of how much capacity you want or space you want to use. For that size, yes, 8 inches should be great. __________________ email: / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas.

08-06-2008, 08:21 PM	#47
CROC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada (GTA) Posts: 291 UserID: 569	Re: My CPH concept If you go with 8", cut a circle the same size as the plug on the LRT so that when it expands, it has space for the end of it to go, allowing for further expansion. Would that not work? __________________ ~CROC~(c 'rock)n. -The master of ideas, and the occasional mod (Works with mr. dude) Mods: 3xA combat - CPS Turbine - Super Flash Flood - (working on CPH)

08-07-2008, 07:45 PM	#48
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,054 UserID: 1	Re: My CPH concept That'd get an extra inch or two, yes. The location of the hole would depend on the angle the gun is held at though, so it probably wouldn't work very reliably unless you cut a slit to allow for a range of angles. __________________ email: / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas.

08-08-2008, 07:21 PM	#49
JLspacemarine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Québec, Canada Posts: 105 UserID: 752	Re: My CPH concept I've tested the gun with LRT today. The results are less successful than what I was expecting.... I started by using only the smaller LRT just to se how much power it has. It's kind of powerful, but not impressive. Actually, my lastest homemade spherical bladder has more kick and power than this. So I tried to put the lager LRT over it using larger hose clamps. It has been well performing. Great shot time and between 40-50 feet of range with a nozzle on par with the CPS 2000. But the smaller LRT didn't held a long time. After a few shots It bursted completely inside the larger tubing, resulting in water stuck between the two layers of rubber tubing. Letting out the remaining water has been a bit tricky, because pulling the trigger wasn't doing anything and unscrewing the endcap at the end of the bladder didn't worked either. So I had to loose one of the tubing clamps. Fortunately I didn't got "too" wet doing this. But, wow, the result isn't pretty: I'm not sure of what to do now, as my LRT supply is limited. I once had the idea of a simple design modification that could be done using my spherical bladder, wich would allow an onboard reservoir of near 4 liters and a PC capacity of 900mL. But I thought that LRT was better.... Any suggestions? __________________ Armory: AS Hydroblitz (x2), MI FlashFlood, STE TripleShot, XP Backfire, XP 215, XP 105, XXP 175, Big Bottle BLaster(x2), SC Power Pak, SpeedLoader1000, SpeedLoader 1500, SpeedLoader Double-Cross 3000, CPS Splashzooka (x2), CPS 1200, CPS 1500, CPS 2000 Mk2, CPS 2100

08-08-2008, 07:48 PM	#50
Killer 7 Domestic water gun engineer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Amador county CA Posts: 34 UserID: 1433	Re: My CPH concept I had a similar problem with one of my guns. The problem was that the LRT could expand too much, and that caused it to wear out very quickly, like after two shots. So you could try making the expansion vessel smaller, or use LRT with a larger ID. I used LRT with a larger ID and have not had to change the LRT in the gun for over 7 months. any way I hope this helps. Edit: I just read that you were using 4" ABS, if you can use three inch it would probably help alot. I know that it will kill the capacity, but having a working gun with less capacity, is better than having a gun that requires expensive repair every few shots. Last edited by Killer 7 : 08-08-2008 at 07:55 PM.

08-08-2008, 08:42 PM	#51
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,054 UserID: 1	Re: My CPH concept That's weird because the smaller tubes I sent you were unused. The larger one had a few uses but not many. I bet this has something to do with the clamping the larger one onto the smaller one. Killer 7 does that and you said you do that. I haven't tried that yet, and I've never experienced this problem, so I'm guessing it has something to do with that method. Reducing the expansion should solve the problem. I'm going to take a guess as to why it happened. There is some air space between the two tubes and perhaps the pressure differential between them caused some problems. If you eliminated the air somehow it probably wouldn't break from my thinking. __________________ email: / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas.

08-14-2008, 12:44 PM	#54
cantab Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England Posts: 539 UserID: 1400	Re: My CPH concept The temperature makes hardly any difference, at least if the water is liquid at atmospheric pressure. (And if it's not then you've got bigger problems than the weight of the gun!) 4 l of water weighs 4 kilos. Hooray for metric! The weight won't be an issue, unless it's heavy empty. Empty weight should ideally be below 2 kilos I reckon. Balance is more important. I think it'll be a bit back heavy. You can rectify that by bringing the handle further back, but that might cause trouble with your trigger. Also, I'd avoid having that vinyl tube running across outside the gun like you've shown. It will be liable to get broken. Either use rigid pipe, or route the tube differently so it's always against something more solid. __________________ Arsenal: 2x XP 220, Arctic Blast M(odded), Aquashock Secret Strike M, CPS1200, CPS 2100, SC Power Pak, XP 215, Liquidator, Sting Ray M, Argon M, Tiger Shark, Shark, Jet, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, Waterbolt, The Blaster, 3l garden sprayer M, 1l sprayer, cheap PR gun, backpack piston pumper (broken, again), 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack, 10l water carrier.

08-14-2008, 02:07 PM	#55
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,293 UserID: 576	Re: My CPH concept It's nice to see a good use for spherical bladders! They come in handy in cases like this, where pretty much any length of tubing would stretch too much. I agree you may find the water gun back heavy when full (but comfortable when the reservoir is empty). But it doesn't look like you can move the grip back too much since you've already built the front assembly. The trigger wire shouldn't get in the way since you can just extend the sliding piece that the trigger is connected to. __________________ Forum rules

08-14-2008, 05:58 PM	#57
cantab Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England Posts: 539 UserID: 1400	Re: My CPH concept That is a touch on the heavy side, but not extreme. __________________ Arsenal: 2x XP 220, Arctic Blast M(odded), Aquashock Secret Strike M, CPS1200, CPS 2100, SC Power Pak, XP 215, Liquidator, Sting Ray M, Argon M, Tiger Shark, Shark, Jet, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, Waterbolt, The Blaster, 3l garden sprayer M, 1l sprayer, cheap PR gun, backpack piston pumper (broken, again), 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack, 10l water carrier.

08-18-2008, 02:27 PM	#58
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,054 UserID: 1	Re: My CPH concept How's the design modification going? I was interested in it but never seem to have made a post about it. __________________ email: / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas.

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