Water balloons?

[DX]

I'm a little confused by "high" vs. "low" on the neck. Is the balloon oriented with the hole on top or on the bottom? In other words, is "high" closer to the opening or farther from it?

"Low" is closer to the balloon body, while "high" is closer to the opening. Of course, too high and too low are bad...watch the Mike vs Douchenator video for the results of two balloons that were tied too high up the neck lol.

Onfield filling hasn't worked for me yet, partly because of the time it takes to fill; instead, I usually fill between rounds and put them in a pringles can, but that won't have the psychological effect of a WB coming out of nowhere.

It's not just the effect of a balloon coming out of the blue, but also the effect of something happening that couldn't possibly happen. When I go minimalist, all you see is a soaker. I would announce that I have a copy of the rules and a whistle in my pocket, but the enemy never noticed unfilled water balloons in there too...they take up virtually no space. So they're puzzled about how a water balloon came flying at them...when there was no backpack, no can, no pocket bulge, no cache, and nothing else in my hands other than the gun. The balloon just appears! [granted that you do remain invisible while filling it and do it quickly]. The enemy may catch on after a few, but chances are they do not have the capability to field-fill...who brings empty water balloons to a war without hoses anyway? The ability then affects their formations, offenses, and defenses - they'll probably be uncharacteristically cautious and will think twice before rushing. This is a form of intimidation that can hit a veteran with the same force as a novice, especially if your whole team has the capability and enjoys trick tactics.

As for onboard water balloons, you would run into the problem of durability. They would be likely to pop even if well-secured, especially in a game involving a lot of running and dodging. You also lose that element of instant surprise, for the enemy could see the water balloon attachment.

[Specter]

I just thought of/remembered something...
When I bought my water balloons at Walgreens (2 packs of 250 for $5) they came with a water balloon inflater. It's basically a small ball valve nozzle that screws onto a garden hose. I'm assuming its a standard thread, sooo, what I thought is if you have a homemade water gun, you can keep the nozzle in your pocket with the water balloons and when you want to use one or 2 then you screw the nozzle on and quickly inflate the balloons you want. The good thing is that it has a little on/off lever, some inflaters I've seen don't have the little lever on them.
I'll take a picture of it when I get the chance and show you guys what it looks like

[Silence]

Thanks, DX. I guess experience alone tells you what's too high and what's too low.

Specter, I've seen those water balloon filler nozzles before. I guess they work well enough, but it's probably not worth sacrificing a hose attachment point for. In my experience, you can use nearly any nozzle (besides an extremely high-pressure one).

A couple people have mentioned using a water balloon nozzle as a conical homemade nozzle.

[Specter]

it's probably not worth sacrificing a hose attachment point for.

I was talking about having it attach to a Homemade and using it to fill balloons on the run like DX described.

[Silence]

Oh, as a modification/extra nozzle? Well, if it does offer a noticeable advantage, I guess that should work. I can definitely see it being useful with some water guns (especially ones with flat nozzle selectors).

[C-A_99]

Personally, I use the balloon filler nozzles as standard for my homemades since they have better performance than endcap nozzles and don't require an expensive purchase from McMaster. However, I've managed to fill via Tiger Sharks, Flash Floods, just about anything that lets you put the balloon's "ring" around the nozzle and shoot, though its often not reliable.

As for the surprise effect of on-field filling, most of my friends already know the trick, and they know I carry a pack around that holds some small supplies. (paper clips, unfilled WB's, and a squirt gun) I won't really be able to on-field fill until I can reliably fill the balloons via blaster without anything stupid happening. (usually the balloon flying away) Only other good side is that I don't have to tie, the balloon can be used immediately unless its a long distance throw.

[Me iz wet]

Water balloons are the grenades of water war. They are effective when defending on a high elevated place it works with a strong arm. The water gun cant go as far unless its VERY powerful =)

[Silence]

They're more than the grenades of water war. Water balloons can easily outrange water guns by a factor of two...in real war, it's usually the other way around, with guns having nearly infinite range versus the range of a grenade throw.

Unfortunately, water balloons don't have a large splash radius, although they do, well, splash.

[cantab]

It's better perhaps to think of water balloons, even hand thrown, as the artillery. More range, more soaking power than most guns if a direct hit is scored, but lower rate of fire, possibly lower accuracy, and less ammo carryable.

(Obviously suitable launchers or tricks like field filling can alleviate some of the drawbacks of the bomb)

[StormGlorious]

I thik of wtare baloons as more of a charge repellant. Also, they force the enemy to keep their heads down. In a fast paced game like ThunderWars, that can provide time for reinforcements to arrive, or for a team member to get into a better position etc.

Storm

[aEx155]

Me popping in here may seem kind of random (well, it is...) but after reading this thread, I thought it would be helpful if I put all of the pro/cons together that everyone mentioned:

Pros:
- Good in OHK games
- Launchers:
+ longer range than water guns
- good for surprise attacks:
+ on-field filling for "water balloons out of nowhere"
- works in suppressing enemy
- no pumping required
- works for hitting tight groups
Cons:
- low ROF:
+ filling water balloons (filling > tying > storing) takes time (some pop)
- Launchers:
+ long reload time
+ can only be used at long ranges (for risk of injury) or reduced ranges (not quite sure on this one)
- water balloons are easily dodgeable (if you know where they're coming from)
- WB can pop when they're not supposed to
- WB can sometimes not pop when they're supposed to
- people can know if you have pre-filled WBs

If you have any more to add, then put them; there's no way I could've gotten them all. Plus, I don't have enough pros, and I know that there's a good deal out there.

Hopefully this helps.

[C-A_99]

Hand thrown and low-range WBL's can be used at any range. Higher powered launchers should be reserved for long range and/or high-angle shots, depending if the risk is just hurting others or if it also involves property damage. But both issues can be alleviated by long-range firing, so when the balloon finally reaches its target, its at the speed as it if were hand thrown at a closer distance to the target.

[cantab]

I would add that water bombs are relatively less effective than in the past. The advantages of a WBL over hand throwing are probably smaller than the advantages a pressurised blaster has over a squirt gun. Thus, the gun has risen compared to the bomb.

[aEx155]

Originally Posted by cantab

I would add that water bombs are relatively less effective than in the past. The advantages of a WBL over hand throwing are probably smaller than the advantages a pressurized blaster has over a squirt gun. Thus, the gun has risen compared to the bomb.

To add something to cantab's idea: if you think about it, it's really easy to increase the size of a water gun for more range/output/coolness(), but I don't think that's possible with water balloons. It gets hard after 3" to make bigger launchers, and it's just as hard to throw anything you can't launch (I'm talking about those 1' water balloons, since you probably could throw anything up to 8").

Anyone get what I'm saying?

[DX]

I still see this as more about how you use the weapon. In the ideal fight, you don't want ANY disadvantages. You also want ALL the tools of war at your disposal, given that everything has at least one effective use. Often the effective use is not the intended use, for example field-filling a water balloon or ambushing with a launcher. Tactics, technology, experience, and other factors cause things to go in and out of favor. If you find an effective use for a launcher, it will grow less effective as the enemy catches on. You then switch to a different strategy that works as well as the original initially. That will fade. Eventually you may return to the original and find success, as the enemy is no longer optimized against it. That's the progressive loop. Point is, it isn't just about power. Water guns have come a long way while launchers have appeared to plateau. Soakers may have more effective uses than balloons and launchers, but you only need to hit the one sweet spot. What matters more in a war? That your gun has 10 more advantages than your balloons, or that one clever throw started a chain reaction that blew the entire enemy defense apart at a critical moment?

When you analyze prior wars, handfuls of decisive moments come out. Many are related - you used something in the right way at the right time. Doesn't matter what its general strengths and weaknesses were, what mattered were your decisions at that moment in that situation. So what I'm saying is that a weapon is naturally neither effective nor ineffective and has no strengths or weaknesses. It takes a user and a context to gain those attributes. A water gun has hard stats: range, output, shot time, etc. as do balloons and launchers. However, they have no relative stats unless you stick them in someone's hands, throw them on a battlefield, insert the enemy, and press "play".

Examples: Long range is not a pro for anything if you're fighting CQ in say alleyways, field-filling becomes a liability if you're low on water, balloons are bad for ambushing if there's nowhere to hide. Even veterans may forget the inaccuracy of launchers in a night battle, carrying one may intimidate newer players even if you've got no ammo, and in some cases you may take so many precautions to make sure a balloon won't burst in the barrel that it doesn't burst when it hits a target. There are other variables, but you get the point.