Water balloons?

[Goldfish4209]

What is your opinion on water balloons? Do you think they are effective or not? Personally, I think water balloons aren't that good because they just don't get people very wet. They seem to never pop when you want them to, and pop when you don't want them to. Most of the time, the water balloon just bounces off the target and pops on the ground. When they rarely do burst on impact, they don't unload a lot of water. Plus, a lot of the water flows away from the victim. Probably the only good thing about water balloons is that they are practical and convenient--just fill-up and throw. But that's just my opinion.

[cantab]

Maybe you're underfilling them.
Also, what sort of environment are you playing in. Water bombs are naturally going to burst better in an urban environment.
As for the advantages - with a strong arm or a launcher they'll outrange water guns, and they can get groups of people wet. Also because they get water over an area, they're harder to dodge - a direct hit is not required to wet the target.

[C-A_99]

The main feature of balloons is range, whether or not you have a launcher. They are easy to dodge, but still effective on teams that crowd together too much. For my own water wars, since we do 1HK, water balloons have always been more of a suppressive, shell-shocker type weapon than a direct killer. If we feel the enemy is coming in too fast, throwing balloons at them usually keeps them on edge and causes them to think twice before charging at us, though tap shots made in their general direction has worked as well. The usage of water balloons might chance once I complete my new launcher, designed to be a quick pressurizing, quick loading, direct fire WBL thats easy to aim with. (tactically, it'll be used much like a sniper rifle)

[Ben]

I rarely ever use water balloons, but I've considered them as backup weaponry. They're always ready. No pumping is required. All you need is a throwing arm and you're good.

Water balloons are probably most useful for what they're good for, which is for long distance attacks as mentioned. Close up it's definitely better to use a water gun.

C-A_99's right that they could be used to make your enemy think twice about charging. I hadn't thought about them being used that way before.

The usage of water balloons might chance once I complete my new launcher, designed to be a quick pressurizing, quick loading, direct fire WBL thats easy to aim with. (tactically, it'll be used much like a sniper rifle)

How's that project going? Is it the same one you mentioned a few months ago? It interested me but I didn't really have much to say. Normally I have a suggestion or two, but with water balloon launchers I'm a little out of my league.

[C-A_99]

Its not only the same project, the thread corresponding to it in the homemades forum is still there. These kinds of projects have a tendency to become idle a lot and progress is somewhat nonexistant right now. Still, I'll get there when I can.

As for water balloon usage, I basically discovered how that worked during a war. I'm sure there are many situations where it might not work as effectively, but it should still keep even some experienced players on edge. The balloons usually have a low probability of hitting, but if it does, its just one hit. Not to mention, the small explosion almost has a small trace of the psychological effect that a real shell has. (as far as morale and shell shock goes in water warfare =/ ) I have long known that WB's aren't very effective killers, and because of that, some teams ditch them completely, which is something I take advantage of when they don't have anything that can keep us back at far range.

When using water balloons, fill 'em up fat (fat enough so that they'll actually burst) and throw 'em fast.

[Drenchenator]

The only advantages I see to water balloons are in range and readiness. It's much easier to shoot a water balloon a couple hundred yards than water. Plus, all the preparation of water balloons can happen before battle, making them a quick and available weapon.

The big problem with them for me is their lack of output. A big water balloon might about 500 mL of water in it. Even if you are throwing one of those a second, that's only about 17x. That's not too much, but not bad. A conventional stream has a water balloon beat for output comparisons.

[Silence]

Well, how long will a shot from water gun actually spend hitting the target? Unless you've been clutching the trigger with perfect aim, you're probably not going to drench the enemy for very long. And definitely not for a second. A second doesn't sound like a long time, but if you visualize a shot sinking in for that long, it is.

I don't really use water balloons because they're fairly inconvenient. Maybe if I used a tennis ball can to carry them it would help.

[cantab]

Drenchenator: Well...even if your throwing aim is spot on, a water balloon sends a decent amount of water away from the target. And if you hit an object near your target, even less hits them.

OTOH Not many water guns have greater than 17x stream nozzles, and certainly none on sale at present. Whereas balloons can always be had.

SilentGuy: In water fights I've been in, my aim with guns is often perfect if the target's at extreme range (true, they dodge, but if they didn't, they'd get hit). At closer range I'll sometimes overshoot them, just because I'm so used to fighting at extreme range (any OHK duel tends to be such). However I tend to use tap shots lasting rather less than a second. Definitely my firing aim is much better than my throwing, but that's because I'm a crap thrower.

So I think whether you find guns or bombs better depends on your firing vs throwing aim and the guns you have. If you have a big CPS, water bombs are less needed than if you only have small guns.

[Silence]

In my opinion, it's not a question of aim simply because your shot can (and most likely will) be dodged. Even with a second-long shot, or many fractional shots, you probably will unload water on the opponent for a quarter of that time.

Still, hitting people with water balloons is hard, although it's a great deterrent to keep enemies at bay. It seems like using a passing game vs. a running game in American football - a deep pass gains many yards, but completions are rare so it's not a reliable tactic in the end.

[Goldfish4209]

Another thing I don't like about water balloons is that they run out much more quickly than a water gun's capacity. A water gunner could easily beat a water ballooner in a one-on-one duel because the water ballooner's supply of ammo would run out in less than a minute. Usually I just carry two or three water balloons because that's the easiest. If there were some convenient way to carry >10 water balloons, like a special backpack, that would be good.

[DX]

I think I've found an effective use for water balloons [in OHK/OHS], but it doesn't involve using them in the usual manner. As the seasons went by, water balloons went out of fashion locally. They rarely scored kills, as sketchy long range throwing accuracy against even average enemy dodging ability made for a wasted balloon. So it would seem that water balloons are generally impractical, except that everything has an effective application, at least according to natural limits. Water balloons weren't working for me at long range...so rather than fight a limit, I decided to try out short and middle ranges. I got a huge breakthrough in the short ranges - within 30 feet of the enemy. Normally that's when you want a gun though...and I had a gun...

The effective use involved filling water balloons off a nozzle of my gun. While that is common knowledge and some guns are even designed for that, very few people remember to call on that ability during battle. SO...I put it into a trick tactic [Magic Artillery] and debuted it against Waterbridge at the siege of High Point in one of the 2007 wars.

Basically what you want to do is "magically procure" a water balloon out of nowhere and catch the enemy off guard. At close range it is very easy to nail an enemy with the balloon they did not expect to see. Therefore, this is a great way to break a standoff or shorten a siege of a defensive position. In order to do this, you need to have a gun with at least one nozzle that sticks out [think CPS 2500, Max-D 5000, etc] and a place where the enemy cannot see you. This works behind a tree, wall, any sort of cover. You fill the balloon with your gun, rush the enemy, and get somebody. It helps if the enemy is defending, especially from in a structure such as a base, as then you can come right up to the edge of their firing range and take the time to ensure that your throw[s] is/are accurate. You don't want to be countered via rush while throwing...so this tactic must be executed swiftly and with the right timing. Sometimes the enemy does not have the capability to counter-rush you at all.

There is another variation of this where you slip a pre-filled water balloon or balloons into your pocket undetected and use them in a siege or as a standoff breaker. The situation is the same - the enemy knows you have just your gun, so they are taken by surprise when you nail them with a balloon at close range. I did that in 2005 during a standoff at the upper dam in the Great Battle of the Goffle and didn't realize it was an excellent trick tactic until years later.

As for the first post and water balloons popping/not popping, a lot of that is affected by how you tied them. Tying the knot high on the neck of a balloon makes it less likely to pop, tying down on the neck makes it more likely. You want the former for shooting in a launcher and the latter when throwing manually.

[Drenchenator]

Nice tips, DX! Surprise tactics are perfect to water balloons. If I ever decide to use water balloons in a battle, I'll probably have to try those out.

[Silence]

Interesting. So instead of showing the balloons and not using them, you hide them and use them? Those two strategies might complement each other well.

I'm a little confused by "high" vs. "low" on the neck. Is the balloon oriented with the hole on top or on the bottom? In other words, is "high" closer to the opening or farther from it?

[C-A_99]

I did hear about DX field-filling before, but didn't know about the knot trick. I always went lower on the neck because it was easier, and probably explains why I hardly ever get a real shot out of my WBL.

Onfield filling hasn't worked for me yet, partly because of the time it takes to fill; instead, I usually fill between rounds and put them in a pringles can, but that won't have the psychological effect of a WB coming out of nowhere.

[Goldfish4209]

Maybe you could mod a blaster with a lot of dead space to somehow hold a small water balloon. That would be interesting.