Trigger Spings

[Silence]

Nice results - I guess empirical is better than theoretical.

Deflection at load is the maximum distance that the spring can be stretched. So the maximum length of the spring is its initial length plus its deflection at load.

Load is the maximum force the spring can resist with, F. Hooke's law says F = kx, where x is the deflection distance (how much the spring is stretched), and k is a constant rate that says how strong the spring is. When the force F reaches the load, the displacement x reaches the "deflection at load."

[sbell25]

Well I got a reply from McMaster regarding their springs:

"We are unable to provide this information"

Huh? Never mind. I found on the site that my guess about initial tension was right anyway. And thanks for the info about load SilentGuy, that's given me everything I need to know.

I opened up my other unbroken Flash Flood and properly measured the spring dimensions on that. I cannot seem to find a spring that matches, or is close enough to, the original spring. The criteria I need to match are:
- Maximum length of 1.1"
- Minimum deflection at load of 7/8"
- Rate of approx. 5lbs/inch

The closest I found was 9044K117. Even that fails to match the deflection at load requirement. The interesting thing though, if I lower my rate requirement to you had guessed SilentGuy, I find quite a few springs that match. Perhaps you were right? This still doesn't explain the results that I got however, any ideas?

[MarsGlorious]

I need your help on this one. I currently have quite a few new hasbro guns that I want fixed before the next game. The issue is that I don't have the dimensions of the spring because they snapped and were lost. I do know that they were approx. 7/8 inches without being stretched and were extension springs.

The funny thing is that's the same length as my Liquidator spring which has broken for other reasons. It would be nice to know the basic dimensions. I okay with where to get the springs that's not a problem.
Trigger Spring Broken List:
3 Triple Aggressors
2 Triple Shots
1 Arctic Blast
1 Arctic Shock
1 Flash Flood
1 Max D 3000
Notice how their all our newer guns.

[sbell25]

I okay with where to get the springs that's not a problem.

Are you talking about McMaster, or have you found somewhere else to get them? If you have, I'd like to know where!

The information in my previous post should be similar for all Max-D triggered guns, however I can't guarantee whether my dimensions will work for any gun.

Here's a picture of the spring from a working Flash Flood:



That's all I know. You could try using springs from the guns that you don't like.

[MarsGlorious]

I'm not talking about McMasters. I've found another supplier. It's local. Options supply.

Your Flash Flood spring looks almost identical to my Liquidator spring. This brings me to the question of whether we should use the same dimensions. In fact that looks identical to most of the springs that I've managed to get out of my soakers.

[sbell25]

As I said, the dimensions should be similar. I'm pretty sure that the valves they use on most of the guns are the same (excluding big nozzle guns like the Triple Shot). However the positioning of the loops at the end of the springs might be different, have a look and see if you can fit your Liquidator spring on the other broken guns.

[MarsGlorious]

The location of the loops are the same. So we could be in luck.

[sbell25]

Why didn't I think to look locally before? Good find. I'll have to have a proper look at that. If you manage to find a good spring that works, be sure to tell us about it.

[MarsGlorious]

Are we forgetting something. The dimensions what are we looking for.

Other Suppliers in Melbourne:
Bernhart Springs
Stach Springs
Options supply P/L

Look on Google you should be able to find suppliers in the area.
(sorry about that)

[Silence]

Originally Posted by sbell25

- Maximum length of 1.1"
- Minimum deflection at load of 7/8"
- Rate of approx. 5lbs/inch

A few springs are somewhat close - part #s 94135K1, 94135K3, 94135K53, and 94135K55. The main problem is their initial lengths are all a bit too big.

You could try "continuous length extension springs" - they don't have loops, so you'll have to bend your own at each end using wires. The good thing about that is you can get any length you want.

[Ben]

You can cut one that's too long shorter too. The springs that are close might be good choices with that in mind as well. The continuous length ones will probably have what you're looking for too, as SilentGuy said.

[Silence]

sbell25 and MarsGlorious, sorry I can't offer any solid information! However, I would suggest just going to a store and testing various springs if you can. Or just get something that may work from McMaster-Carr. Don't pull out your hair over little things like the exact resistant force or anything.

I took a look at the continuous length springs, and the selection isn't really spectacular. It takes a bit of calculation to figure out the actual spring rate, given the initial length, coils per length, and rate per coil. And even then, as I found out, spring rates of about 5 at the length you're looking for are only found with very large springs - 1/2" in diameter. That's not what you're looking for.

I'm guessing the spring rate really is lower simply because they don't make very many small springs with high spring rates. I would settle for a lower spring rate. If the spring is too long, you could drill a hole in the plastic and mount one end farther away than the original spring was.

[sbell25]

sbell25 and MarsGlorious, sorry I can't offer any solid information! However, I would suggest just going to a store and testing various springs if you can. Or just get something that may work from McMaster-Carr. Don't pull out your hair over little things like the exact resistant force or anything.

I suppose you're right, I have gotten a bit carried away with finding the exact spring. I was hoping that if it worked, more people would try it, and we'd eventually be able to have a database of replacement springs for all Max-D triggers. Finally, an end to all Max-D trigger problems! I might just go ahead and order the weaker springs anyway, depending on what I find with the companies that MarsGlorious found.

Looking at the broken spring, I'm beginning to think that the only reason they break is because they rust, weakening the point between the loop and the spring itself. So I'll definitely try and go stainless steel.

[Ben]

I always thought that not using stainless steel parts like screws and springs in water guns was about as absent minded an engineer could be. If it's going to get wet, use stainless steel or at least coat something over the steel like paint. Stainless just saves so much frustration in the future.

Though, as I've figured out, a lot of things the companies do they do to make sure their products break after a certain period, so you go and buy another one. I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro used bad springs on purpose.

[sbell25]

I just had a thought. This isn't a fix, but it could possibly be a preventative measure. I remember reading an article on Downpour that suggests putting vaseline on screws to stop them rusting. If the springs really do break only because they rust, then putting Vaseline on them should stop them breaking. Due to the unpredictable nature of when the springs decide to break though, it's going to be hard to judge whether it actually works.

I'll try this on my working Flash Flood, and see how it goes.

Edit: Just had another look at the article on Downpour, and it also suggests putting Vaseline on the springs. I guess Wetmonkey beat me to it!