Super Soaker Central forums

hydroblast · 06-18-2007, 10:37 AM

Why not?
Use electrolysis to drive water!
Use a 4 inch main drive propulsion chamber with a 2 dimensional offset electrode biasing setup. Neck this down to 1/4 - 3/8 inch and you have just created the most advanced watergun on the planet!
I would use solar cells for power,(its sunny, right).
I've played with this type of propulsion and some good success with a modulated signal using the 2 dimentional electrode setup.

What do you guys think? Anyone interested?

Hydroblast

Monsoon · 06-18-2007, 06:28 PM

Electrolysis is an inefficient and expensive way to drive water, especially in such a small sized water gun. I believe this has been discussed in the tech section of the forums.....I may be wrong, so you should check them yourself. As far as solar cells go, they are probably the worst way to make electricity, as they are expensive and bad at transferring sun into electricity so I don't think your gun will work like that. I'm sure theres a way to do it but as far as I know, it hasn't/can't be done. But I'm sure someone else will know better than I.

Ben · 06-18-2007, 08:07 PM

hydroblast, I don't quite understand what you're proposing (could be my current dizziness!). Are you proposing a water gun that uses a caterpiller drive and solar panels? I think that's it.

Monsoon, the water gun he is discussing uses electrolysis not to create pressure directly as was discussed previously. The electrolysis creates a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen commonly called Brown's gas that is highly combustible. Electrolysis to create Brown's gas isn't a very efficient method, but several water gun and "water bomb" designs have shown it to have potential for high power. I personally would not suggest it due to the inefficiency and the fact that it involves batteries and high voltage usually. I personally think electrolysis water guns are more of a novelty than anything else, but they do show the potential for extremely high power. I am interesting in making one myself when I have a little bit more money and resources.

Would solar cells fit an electrolysis water gun? No. Solar cells are not very efficient. They only work well when they have a very large area to college from and plenty of sunlight. Surely, I am a proponent of solar energy on a large scale, but on a small scale like this I doubt it would work. Even worse is the weight of a good solar cell. Of course, if it is made like some sort of ATV, there might not be too much of a problem. I think electrolysis water guns sadly will be limited by the power sources available.

What would be better in my opinion would be getting something like an ATV, attaching a large water tank and a gas powered water pump. Something like 40 gallons of water wouldn't weigh too much for a good ATV (okay, 330 pounds, but it's not that bad) and with a gas powered water pump you could really blast whatever you felt like. Something like 90 feet of range would easily be attainable.

This is post number 5000 for me.

Silence · 06-18-2007, 10:55 PM

Neat idea. Thanks for the clarification Ben - I was a bit confused earlier, too.

"Caterpillar drive" seems to imply the water gun is on a vehicle of some sort...unless the term is a physics one that I'm unaware of. And as you said, solar cells are more feasible on a vehicle.

Solar cells only have about 10% efficiency, so you'll want to crunch some figures to make sure there's enough power to support the entire system.

hydroblast · 06-19-2007, 12:01 AM

I've been working with a 2 dimensional catapillar drive for propulsion. This is a radical change from "standard catapillar drives". I'm using a spiraling stacked electrode setup which greatly amplifies the drive pressure.
I was thinking of using that drive to shoot water, necked down to 3/8 or 1/4 inch to intensify the pressure.
This drive system uses electrolysis to directly propell the water from a typical drive tube. No, it does'nt separate hydrogen and oxygen for a flammable mix. Rather it uses the circular magnetic field that surrounds all normal conductors,(not super conductors), to link to the waters molecules driving them out one end of the drive tube. No moving parts. One side effect is lots of tiny bubbles, a minor detail for this.
Original Catapillar drives were very inefficient, and had a lousy power to drive ratio. I make lots of stuff, and as I mentioned I've had some success with a 2 dimensional drive. I stacked conductor bars in a spiral for greatly increased efficiency.

Congrats on your 5000 Ben!

Hydroblast

Ben · 06-19-2007, 06:28 AM

Okay, I see what you're talking about now. I thought you were considering using a drive system similar to construction vehicles! I think you should explain things a little more in-depth because I really had no idea what you were talking about.

This link might help some who don't understand what he's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

It should be noted that this does not use electrolysis to function, though I suppose a side-effect is the electrolysis of water. It uses magnetic (and technically also electric) fields to move water. The entire idea is pretty interesting, but it is inefficient. This again I think is another novelty due to the high amount of electricity required. An electric pump system would easily be more efficient.

Could I see some pictures of your setup? This does intrigue me now. Where do you get these ideas?

hydroblast · 06-20-2007, 12:51 AM

Thanks for the reply Ben.
I like to play with all types of technology. It leads me in many different directions.
If you were to look at my core, it would be purely creative. I'm a carpenter at the moment,(4 yrs.). My past was in electronics, software, plumbing, pneumatics, machining, welding, refrigeration. No, I'm not just saying that for egotistical reasons.
My other business besides myaircannons.com is building art furniture. treefroggalleries.com .
I love to create Everything!
I'm about 2 weeks away from finishing my" full auto ping pong ball Chain gun ".
It will be on my web site then.
I hope this helps you understand where I get all this from.

Photos... The core of the 2 dimensional drive is a mass of copper I place in a pvc tube, submerged in a home made tub. Its not much to see. If you still want me to get a picture I will do my best.

Thanks Hydroblast

06-18-2007, 10:37 AM	#1
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Caterpillar drive for advanced water guns! Why not? Use electrolysis to drive water! Use a 4 inch main drive propulsion chamber with a 2 dimensional offset electrode biasing setup. Neck this down to 1/4 - 3/8 inch and you have just created the most advanced watergun on the planet! I would use solar cells for power,(its sunny, right). I've played with this type of propulsion and some good success with a modulated signal using the 2 dimentional electrode setup. What do you guys think? Anyone interested? Hydroblast

06-18-2007, 06:28 PM	#2
Monsoon Retired Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 832 UserID: 56	Electrolysis is an inefficient and expensive way to drive water, especially in such a small sized water gun. I believe this has been discussed in the tech section of the forums.....I may be wrong, so you should check them yourself. As far as solar cells go, they are probably the worst way to make electricity, as they are expensive and bad at transferring sun into electricity so I don't think your gun will work like that. I'm sure theres a way to do it but as far as I know, it hasn't/can't be done. But I'm sure someone else will know better than I. __________________ Do not underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups

06-18-2007, 08:07 PM	#3
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,974 UserID: 1	hydroblast, I don't quite understand what you're proposing (could be my current dizziness!). Are you proposing a water gun that uses a caterpiller drive and solar panels? I think that's it. Monsoon, the water gun he is discussing uses electrolysis not to create pressure directly as was discussed previously. The electrolysis creates a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen commonly called Brown's gas that is highly combustible. Electrolysis to create Brown's gas isn't a very efficient method, but several water gun and "water bomb" designs have shown it to have potential for high power. I personally would not suggest it due to the inefficiency and the fact that it involves batteries and high voltage usually. I personally think electrolysis water guns are more of a novelty than anything else, but they do show the potential for extremely high power. I am interesting in making one myself when I have a little bit more money and resources. Would solar cells fit an electrolysis water gun? No. Solar cells are not very efficient. They only work well when they have a very large area to college from and plenty of sunlight. Surely, I am a proponent of solar energy on a large scale, but on a small scale like this I doubt it would work. Even worse is the weight of a good solar cell. Of course, if it is made like some sort of ATV, there might not be too much of a problem. I think electrolysis water guns sadly will be limited by the power sources available. What would be better in my opinion would be getting something like an ATV, attaching a large water tank and a gas powered water pump. Something like 40 gallons of water wouldn't weigh too much for a good ATV (okay, 330 pounds, but it's not that bad) and with a gas powered water pump you could really blast whatever you felt like. Something like 90 feet of range would easily be attainable. This is post number 5000 for me. __________________ email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post.

06-18-2007, 10:55 PM	#4
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,246 UserID: 576	Neat idea. Thanks for the clarification Ben - I was a bit confused earlier, too. "Caterpillar drive" seems to imply the water gun is on a vehicle of some sort...unless the term is a physics one that I'm unaware of. And as you said, solar cells are more feasible on a vehicle. Solar cells only have about 10% efficiency, so you'll want to crunch some figures to make sure there's enough power to support the entire system. __________________ Forum Rules

06-19-2007, 12:01 AM	#5
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Clairification of a catapillar drive water gun I've been working with a 2 dimensional catapillar drive for propulsion. This is a radical change from "standard catapillar drives". I'm using a spiraling stacked electrode setup which greatly amplifies the drive pressure. I was thinking of using that drive to shoot water, necked down to 3/8 or 1/4 inch to intensify the pressure. This drive system uses electrolysis to directly propell the water from a typical drive tube. No, it does'nt separate hydrogen and oxygen for a flammable mix. Rather it uses the circular magnetic field that surrounds all normal conductors,(not super conductors), to link to the waters molecules driving them out one end of the drive tube. No moving parts. One side effect is lots of tiny bubbles, a minor detail for this. Original Catapillar drives were very inefficient, and had a lousy power to drive ratio. I make lots of stuff, and as I mentioned I've had some success with a 2 dimensional drive. I stacked conductor bars in a spiral for greatly increased efficiency. Congrats on your 5000 Ben! Hydroblast Last edited by Ben : 06-19-2007 at 06:10 AM.

06-19-2007, 06:28 AM	#6
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,974 UserID: 1	Okay, I see what you're talking about now. I thought you were considering using a drive system similar to construction vehicles! I think you should explain things a little more in-depth because I really had no idea what you were talking about. This link might help some who don't understand what he's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive It should be noted that this does not use electrolysis to function, though I suppose a side-effect is the electrolysis of water. It uses magnetic (and technically also electric) fields to move water. The entire idea is pretty interesting, but it is inefficient. This again I think is another novelty due to the high amount of electricity required. An electric pump system would easily be more efficient. Could I see some pictures of your setup? This does intrigue me now. Where do you get these ideas? __________________ email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post.

06-20-2007, 12:51 AM	#7
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Rain is just natures undeveloped super soaker. Thanks for the reply Ben. I like to play with all types of technology. It leads me in many different directions. If you were to look at my core, it would be purely creative. I'm a carpenter at the moment,(4 yrs.). My past was in electronics, software, plumbing, pneumatics, machining, welding, refrigeration. No, I'm not just saying that for egotistical reasons. My other business besides myaircannons.com is building art furniture. treefroggalleries.com . I love to create Everything! I'm about 2 weeks away from finishing my" full auto ping pong ball Chain gun ". It will be on my web site then. I hope this helps you understand where I get all this from. Photos... The core of the 2 dimensional drive is a mass of copper I place in a pvc tube, submerged in a home made tub. Its not much to see. If you still want me to get a picture I will do my best. Thanks Hydroblast

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