The Mind of The Stealthy Panda

[The Stealthy Panda]

Yep, I sure do have a lot of ideas. And, since I have so many, I decided to make a single thread to inject them all into. Here's the first one:

A CVF on a Quick-Fill soaker will always result in the function of its QFD capabilities becoming limited to the PC. A way I thought of to work around this would be to install a ball valve in front of the PR valve. It can be opened for quick-Filling, and closed for combat. And , so it will fill the PC all the way if you did a K-mod or similar mod, just leave the gun in the filler for a few seconds after closing the valve.

[Ben]

The QFD guns don't have an over-pressure relief valve, so you can'd do the PRV removal modification (the new name for check valve freezing). There is a few exceptions to these rules, and they're the Monster series and SC series. If you do a check valve freeze, using the QFD on these water guns is very dangerous because if the water gun overfills, the bladder will pop.

The power of the QFD guns is limited by two things: (1) the power of the hose and (2) the thickness of the bladder in the case of the CPS water guns. Most ever water gun made to use a QFD already is essentially at the maximum power that can be achieved from a standard hose. There aren't any real power modifications (other than nozzle drilling) that can be done without doing something like adding extra air in the air powered QFD water guns.

[Silence]

The manufacturers probably decided to play it safe and require less pressure than most households have at their disposal. So you could strengthen the bladder a little bit, in most cases.

However, the Splashzooka is a cylindrical PC water gun. You can't K-mod it with balloons; instead, you'll have to struggle with bike inner tubing or some other kind of rubber tubing. And adding layers one by one to see how many you can add will be a pain.

Ben's right in that nozzle modifications are probably the most you can do. Even if you could add several layers of tubing to colossus the bladder, range probably won't be increased by more than a couple feet due to diminishing returns (for both stream velocity and for range). It's better to find a way to take advantage of the power that's there.

Remember, the Splashzooka isn't supposed to be an insanely powerful water gun...just one that's easy to fill. So it's hard to expect tremendous pressure.

EDIT: Ben, did anything happen with the Mad Zook project that's still detailed on the website? Sounded like they were off to a decent start.

[Ben]

I don't know if Pepper went any further than what he emailed me. I'm very sure he didn't go any further than what is on the website. The modification seemed to be simply a way to increase the maximum water output the Splashzooka is capable of.

It is interesting to note however that the Splashzooka did have a PRV, something I missed when discussing which ones do have them. Hmm... perhaps they all have PRVs, but disabling them obviously wouldn't do any good.

[The Stealthy Panda]

Ok, I just got another idea. Why not use extension springs (the kind that pull doors closed) to pressurize a PC? It might not be as contant as CPS, but you would only have to bull back a shaft, and then you wouldn't have to pump again until the PC ran out! here's a link to a picture of the pump/PC:http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...y/untitled.png

[Silence]

So...you're suggesting a spring-powered launcher?

The problem is that you can't reach very good pressures or volumes with such a system. Let's say you could comfortably pull a 10-pound spring. If we wanted to have 40 gauge PSI, those 10 pounds would have to be applied over 1/4 of a square inch - approximately the area of a 1/2" tube.

The maximum length for such a system might be one or two feet. So each time you fire, you can only displace the volume that would fill a one-foot length of 1/2" PVC. Not much.

That said, some water guns have accomplished such feats - like the Water Warriors Splat Blaster, which does use a spring. A homemade version could use a spring four times longer, meaning more capacity, meaning you don't need such wide tubing, meaning more pressure and range. So it's possible.

[Ben]

Pressurizing something like air with a spring isn't a good idea. But pressurizing water with a spring actually is a neat idea worth trying. Compression springs are the best for these.

I actually was working on a spring powered water gun similar to the spring powered Nerf guns a few months ago. The problem was that the spring I had was far too powerful (Some of you should remember which spring I'm talking about. Since then, I've donated it to a science teacher for demonstrations.). I am considering this idea again with a two inch piston for higher pressures. The pressures still won't be very high, but I suspect a long shot time version of the water gun would be very good. Imagine one single pump powering a 30+ second shot. That was my original concept.

[Silence]

Hmm...was that the 30" long spring?

I personally would be more interested in a design that allowed for more output and less shot time. Assuming such a water gun would be used in a water war, what's the chance that you'll get stuck in a 30-second engagement in which you can't pump even once? Also, there might be a fair bit of dropoff unless you compress the spring beforehand.

In other words, it might be better to settle for maybe 1-10 seconds of shot time and pump every ten seconds. It can all probably be switched by switching nozzles though.

A 2-inch piston might be feasible if you use the appropriate nozzles and tubing to maximize range. If CPS water guns can function with only 20-30 PSIg, then I'm sure a 10 PSIg water gun could hit maybe 30 feet.

Stealthy Panda, you'll probably want to use compression springs, not extension springs. Compression springs can directly push on a plunger, allowing for a much simpler design. A variety of springs can be obtained online through, you guessed it, McMaster-Carr or direct from manufacturers.

[The Stealthy Panda]

Thanks! Actually, my local hardware store has several springs, but I will try McMaster if the hardware store doesn't have sufficiently large springs.
Here's my latest idea. It's a bit crude, but bear with me here. If one had enough money and technical know-how, one could modify a shop-vac to shoot water. The same could be done, if one had still more money (I got this from Red Green) with the fuel pump from a cruise missile or rocket. Probably a terrible idea, but just putting it out there. Basically a giant CAP gun.

[Silence]

Yep, similar things have been done. Search the SSC forums for MOARC (the Mother of All River Cannons) or Ben's link to the model airplane motor water gun (a video on YouTube). Ben also had a link to a YouTube video of some massive turbine-injected fire suppressor machines or whatever. Pretty amazing stuff.

[The Stealthy Panda]

Okay, I saw the link, and I have something to say about its range: damn. If that thing can really reach 90 feet, then that just about shatters any idea that I had about what's "impossible". That's insane. And an idea I just had: using an auger with rubber edges to create pressure. And, maybe those forest fire pumpers that the fire department uses. Despite their use of piston technology, the newer ones manage to get ranges of up to 100 feet. Or, instead of buying one, I could just go to howstuffworks. Chiao, for now.

EDIT: They didn't have it.

2 Fast, 2 Edit: Okay. So, I've got this idea for a hybrid homemade/stock. It would have all the good qualities of a stock weapon: the looks, the trigger, the novelty features, but with all the power of a homemade. Basically, the procedure would be this: reinforce the internals, remove the PRV, and replace the PC with a homemade one, as well as any other systems you think are less than shizzle bazizzle. This is basically Doom's Piston Conversion mod, but expanded to include other stuff.

[The Stealthy Panda]

Here's an idea: You know those balloon punching bags that have a tie-dye pattern? Well, one could make these into a PC for a water cannon. If one was so inclined.

[Silence]

Yep, you could use almost anything for a PC, as long as it seals well.

Once somebody suggested using a bag inside a PC to separate air and water (instead of a piston), for use in Pre Charger homemades. At the time, I thought the physics wouldn't work, so I unfortunately opposed the idea. But it's actually a pretty neat concept.

People have used 2-liter bottles to great success.

Regarding your edit to the previous post: Yep, the most extreme mods should definitely address reliability issues. Take a look at some heavily modded water guns - like joannaardway's Triple Aggressor, her CPS 2700, and probably some of Ben's mods. (By the way, Ben is the same as Doom - just a name change.)

[The Stealthy Panda]

Yeah, I'll definitely try that next time one of my soakers breaks, or maybe I could make like a Frankenstein soaker.
Well, anyway, Ben, in your internal diameter article you mentioned that "you don't need to have a two-inch internal diameter, unless you're really power hungry". What did you mean by that? How much power do you think might be achieved by a two, three, maybe even four inch ID? Short of the gun becoming just a big PC, I mean.

EDIT: I think I'll go make something like that on PVC designer right now.

[Silence]

Keep in mind that, like many articles, the internal diameter article may be a little outdated.

The amount of flow that passes through a certain section of tubing is relative to the size of the tubing. And for the most part, the smallest section of tubing in the entire system will be the overall limiting factor.*

So if you have a 1/2" tube somewhere in the barrel but 2" tubing everywhere else, the water gun will only perform like a 1/2" one.

*For example, in Ben's SuperCannon II, the entire flow was 80% of the rated flow of the nozzle - which was the smallest part of the water gun.