Super Soaker Central forums

hydroblast · 06-05-2007, 12:34 PM

Hi guys
I'm in the final stages of completing a Tri-phase Hydrogen water cannon.
There has been alot of buzz recently around the whole Hydrogen energy thing.
It seemed like a natural for advanced high pressure water guns to use water as fuel. Its already in the gun, and broken down water is EXTREMELY powerful,(hydrogen, oxygen).
A quick parting note before I must return to work. This whole design centered around safty. The core of the combustion chamber was based on a high flow pop-off valve. This vents any pressure above 150psi, and is adjustable. So this gun/cannon runs with a max. pressure of 150psi.
Obviously I was able to get an incredible range at that pressure. (I did'nt measure the distance, sorry).
Also I choose a solid state ignition system and electric valve firing mech.
Should be done in about 3 weeks.

Thanks Hydroblast www.myaircannons.com

Ben · 06-05-2007, 12:47 PM

High pressure water guns always are a cool thing. This entire thing sounds interesting. Are you using electrolysis to generate brown's gas to then combust? That's what it sounds like. I saw a link about that before and some YouTube videos, but they didn't look too promising.

Good luck with the project! While it would be slow to pressurize, I think it would be very powerful on a larger scale. I'd be interested in seeing some more water guns like this.

Edit: You've got me interested. This link looks promising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJftC...elated&search=

The only problem is, anyone here want to use 2K volts to get a powerful water gun? Sounds like a recipe for danger. This would be a way to get a powerful water gun though.

hydroblast · 06-05-2007, 01:12 PM

Hi ben
Thanks for the input.
You are right, the cannon does use electroylsis, and charge time varies with fresh batteries/ water purity. I intentionally made this gun with 3 different methods of charge or energy input.
1) Hydrogen and oxygen by electroylsis

2)Most other gases,(hair spray, propane, right guard etc.)

3)And finally compressed air

All pressure parts are schedule 80 pressure rated. Thats a rated 620psi max.
I chose interchangable nozzels for max. range,(water flow), and long lasting,(smaller nozzel, longer run time).

Anyway, YOU DON,T HAVE TO PUMP IT UP. That was key also to the design.

I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding.
More to follow
Thanks Hydroblast

Silence · 06-05-2007, 02:15 PM

Sounds like a great project. Keep us updated!

Just in case you were considering a higher-pressure pop-up valve in the future, remember that some pipe fittings aren't rated as high as the actual tubing. You might also want to consider copper or something.

My only concern is that there might not be enough capacity to support high flow for more than an instant. Usually, only smaller tubing has 620 PSI ratings (they're safe far beyond that level, though, but still...). Large nozzles will require large tubing for more flow and large capacity for more shot time. Of course, since this is just experimental, shot time might not be an issue.

hydroblast · 06-05-2007, 08:34 PM

A valid point Silent guy.
The high flow pop off valve is actually a 1 and one half inch machined brass one way valve with a hold back spring. I choose a motor cycle front fork spring with a bolt pushing onto the spring. The threaded section offers an adjustment range to control release pressure.
I checked the max. rated pipe pressure and the 1 and a half inch pipe is rated for 470psi, the half inch is 620.

Hydroblaster

Ben · 06-06-2007, 06:09 AM

I think SilentGuy meant the PVC fittings. From what I've seen, the PVC fittings should be rated at worst 50% of what their corresponding PVC pipe is rated at (depending on where you ask). I've seen wildly varying ratings however. I don't think it's anything to worry about. Here's some detailed information on the subject though: http://www.awav.net/rpowers/pressure.htm

hydroblast · 06-06-2007, 10:48 AM

Thanks Ben
That was a very helpful web link.
I've never had a fitting or pipe fail...ever.

I have a very diverse background, centered around the trades and business. The point I'm trying to make is I'm going to let you in on a secrete IF you ever have a fitting leak,(not failed).
I've had only 2 leaks in all my glueing,(welding pvc). If this happens an easy way to fix it is to hook a vacuum pump,(or fridge compressor), to your air input valve,(remove the one way valve first). Draw a partial vacuum and apply primer to the leaking joint area. This will draw primer into the leak area. Give it 20 secs. then apply your glue/solvent. 5 secs later turn off the pump. Keep the leak area saturated with glue after the pump is off. Whats happening is the vacuum is diminishing and you have glue being sucked into the joint. At some point, the weakening vacuum will stop pulling glue through the joint. The glue will now be into the entire leak area providing an excellant repair. As strong as it can be.
Thanks Hydroblast

Ben · 06-06-2007, 12:34 PM

The thing most people don't realize is that these ratings are already conservative. I did a lot of searching to find that page and what I've read indicates to me that you often can pressurize the pipe beyond its rating without any ill effects. I myself never have had a pipe or fitting fail as well, but I've know it can happen and I suppose the pipe companies take liability into account.

That vaccuum repair method sounds great! I'll put that on our website in addition to the fillet welding procedure. Both combined might be the best repair available.

Silence · 06-06-2007, 01:43 PM

Right, I meant the fittings...thanks. Nice link by the way - never realized how bad threaded fittings were until I saw the chart just now. I'm wondering if they used Teflon tape or something else.

That's a really cool repair. It sounds like you don't even need to worry about glue coverage. However, I'm wondering whether or not a maximum pressure gradient of 15 PSI is enough to get the glue into the tightest joints...but I guess if it works, it works.

hydroblast · 06-07-2007, 12:35 AM

If air can leak out, we can suck glue in. Thats been my 2 times experiance.
Those leaks were quite small, but you could hear them.

Silence · 06-07-2007, 07:04 PM

Nice. My concern was due to the fact that the cement has a high viscosity, which means it might take more pressure to effuse. Air has barely any viscosity, of course, so that's a different story.

I remember when we rerouted our natural gas pipeline (for the grill) we used soapy water on the threaded joints to make sure there weren't any leaks. I might consider doing that on a homemade if I don't actually hear any leaks.

hydroblast · 06-08-2007, 12:50 AM

I hear you silent guy.
I'm sure you understand the priciple I'm using for drawing the glue into the very small leak/opening. I always try to use common sense in these things. If my first attempt at a suction repair does,nt work, I'll keep the area wet with primer and then ad the glue. Or if its being really cranky, I'll choose the low viscosity glue, with greater penetration qualities,(and perhaps increase the vacuum drawn to 15-16 inches of mercury).
This type of repair has helped even with one threaded connection.

On a completly different note, check out my Live fire demo on youtube. Just type in "water balloon Bazooka". Or, "water balloon Mortar".

Thanks Hydroblast

Kalogagatya · 06-10-2007, 07:05 PM

a simple way to pressurize any chamber with water is to simpy drop a tiny bit of solid CO2 eheh

i saw your site that was on the first post of this thread...

you are a very insane man.

EDIT: posts merged. If you need to add something within a couple of hours after posting, you can edit the old post to save clutter. Thanks. cool:

hydroblast · 06-11-2007, 11:34 PM

I have a vivid imagination... what can I say.
I'm open to suggestions. Anything you you can think of that needs making?
The full auto ping pong ball chain gun is almost done, It works great!!!

I would like to make a water gun that shoots water nuggets or pellets. Something like in Vegas, but portable. (Vegas has incredible water shows).

Anyway thanks for your comments.

Kalogagatya · 06-12-2007, 12:19 PM

hmm.. don't know if i got the picture: what you want is something that delivers a solid amount of water, with a perfectly defined flow line, in a burst fashion?

for that you need a reduced friction water vessel (look for the teflon coated steel ones), connected to a gear pump with a high m^3/s value. (depending of course on the tube diameter and range you want to get from it). also try to minimize all sorts of curves and junctions.

but i don't really know if that kind of assembly has something else.. i'm pretty sure it does have though....

06-05-2007, 12:34 PM	#1
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Tri-phase Hydrogen water cannon Hi guys I'm in the final stages of completing a Tri-phase Hydrogen water cannon. There has been alot of buzz recently around the whole Hydrogen energy thing. It seemed like a natural for advanced high pressure water guns to use water as fuel. Its already in the gun, and broken down water is EXTREMELY powerful,(hydrogen, oxygen). A quick parting note before I must return to work. This whole design centered around safty. The core of the combustion chamber was based on a high flow pop-off valve. This vents any pressure above 150psi, and is adjustable. So this gun/cannon runs with a max. pressure of 150psi. Obviously I was able to get an incredible range at that pressure. (I did'nt measure the distance, sorry). Also I choose a solid state ignition system and electric valve firing mech. Should be done in about 3 weeks. Thanks Hydroblast www.myaircannons.com

06-05-2007, 12:47 PM	#2
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,974 UserID: 1	High pressure water guns always are a cool thing. This entire thing sounds interesting. Are you using electrolysis to generate brown's gas to then combust? That's what it sounds like. I saw a link about that before and some YouTube videos, but they didn't look too promising. Good luck with the project! While it would be slow to pressurize, I think it would be very powerful on a larger scale. I'd be interested in seeing some more water guns like this. Edit: You've got me interested. This link looks promising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJftC...elated&search= The only problem is, anyone here want to use 2K volts to get a powerful water gun? Sounds like a recipe for danger. This would be a way to get a powerful water gun though. __________________ email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post. Last edited by Ben : 06-05-2007 at 01:01 PM.

06-05-2007, 01:12 PM	#3
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Tri-phase hydrogen water cannon Hi ben Thanks for the input. You are right, the cannon does use electroylsis, and charge time varies with fresh batteries/ water purity. I intentionally made this gun with 3 different methods of charge or energy input. 1) Hydrogen and oxygen by electroylsis 2)Most other gases,(hair spray, propane, right guard etc.) 3)And finally compressed air All pressure parts are schedule 80 pressure rated. Thats a rated 620psi max. I chose interchangable nozzels for max. range,(water flow), and long lasting,(smaller nozzel, longer run time). Anyway, YOU DON,T HAVE TO PUMP IT UP. That was key also to the design. I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding. More to follow Thanks Hydroblast

06-05-2007, 02:15 PM	#4
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,246 UserID: 576	Sounds like a great project. Keep us updated! Just in case you were considering a higher-pressure pop-up valve in the future, remember that some pipe fittings aren't rated as high as the actual tubing. You might also want to consider copper or something. My only concern is that there might not be enough capacity to support high flow for more than an instant. Usually, only smaller tubing has 620 PSI ratings (they're safe far beyond that level, though, but still...). Large nozzles will require large tubing for more flow and large capacity for more shot time. Of course, since this is just experimental, shot time might not be an issue. __________________ Forum Rules

06-05-2007, 08:34 PM	#5
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Pressure rated parts A valid point Silent guy. The high flow pop off valve is actually a 1 and one half inch machined brass one way valve with a hold back spring. I choose a motor cycle front fork spring with a bolt pushing onto the spring. The threaded section offers an adjustment range to control release pressure. I checked the max. rated pipe pressure and the 1 and a half inch pipe is rated for 470psi, the half inch is 620. Hydroblaster

06-06-2007, 06:09 AM	#6
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,974 UserID: 1	I think SilentGuy meant the PVC fittings. From what I've seen, the PVC fittings should be rated at worst 50% of what their corresponding PVC pipe is rated at (depending on where you ask). I've seen wildly varying ratings however. I don't think it's anything to worry about. Here's some detailed information on the subject though: http://www.awav.net/rpowers/pressure.htm __________________ email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post.

06-06-2007, 10:48 AM	#7
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	pvc fittings Thanks Ben That was a very helpful web link. I've never had a fitting or pipe fail...ever. I have a very diverse background, centered around the trades and business. The point I'm trying to make is I'm going to let you in on a secrete IF you ever have a fitting leak,(not failed). I've had only 2 leaks in all my glueing,(welding pvc). If this happens an easy way to fix it is to hook a vacuum pump,(or fridge compressor), to your air input valve,(remove the one way valve first). Draw a partial vacuum and apply primer to the leaking joint area. This will draw primer into the leak area. Give it 20 secs. then apply your glue/solvent. 5 secs later turn off the pump. Keep the leak area saturated with glue after the pump is off. Whats happening is the vacuum is diminishing and you have glue being sucked into the joint. At some point, the weakening vacuum will stop pulling glue through the joint. The glue will now be into the entire leak area providing an excellant repair. As strong as it can be. Thanks Hydroblast

06-06-2007, 12:34 PM	#8
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,974 UserID: 1	The thing most people don't realize is that these ratings are already conservative. I did a lot of searching to find that page and what I've read indicates to me that you often can pressurize the pipe beyond its rating without any ill effects. I myself never have had a pipe or fitting fail as well, but I've know it can happen and I suppose the pipe companies take liability into account. That vaccuum repair method sounds great! I'll put that on our website in addition to the fillet welding procedure. Both combined might be the best repair available. __________________ email: ben at sscentral dot org / Forum rules Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas. Do not send me a PM or email about reading a certain post unless it's been a few days since you've posted. I try to read every post. Last edited by Ben : 06-07-2007 at 09:04 PM.

06-06-2007, 01:43 PM	#9
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,246 UserID: 576	Right, I meant the fittings...thanks. Nice link by the way - never realized how bad threaded fittings were until I saw the chart just now. I'm wondering if they used Teflon tape or something else. That's a really cool repair. It sounds like you don't even need to worry about glue coverage. However, I'm wondering whether or not a maximum pressure gradient of 15 PSI is enough to get the glue into the tightest joints...but I guess if it works, it works. __________________ Forum Rules

06-07-2007, 12:35 AM	#10
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Leaky joints If air can leak out, we can suck glue in. Thats been my 2 times experiance. Those leaks were quite small, but you could hear them.

06-07-2007, 07:04 PM	#11
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,246 UserID: 576	Nice. My concern was due to the fact that the cement has a high viscosity, which means it might take more pressure to effuse. Air has barely any viscosity, of course, so that's a different story. I remember when we rerouted our natural gas pipeline (for the grill) we used soapy water on the threaded joints to make sure there weren't any leaks. I might consider doing that on a homemade if I don't actually hear any leaks. __________________ Forum Rules

06-08-2007, 12:50 AM	#12
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	Gooey cement I hear you silent guy. I'm sure you understand the priciple I'm using for drawing the glue into the very small leak/opening. I always try to use common sense in these things. If my first attempt at a suction repair does,nt work, I'll keep the area wet with primer and then ad the glue. Or if its being really cranky, I'll choose the low viscosity glue, with greater penetration qualities,(and perhaps increase the vacuum drawn to 15-16 inches of mercury). This type of repair has helped even with one threaded connection. On a completly different note, check out my Live fire demo on youtube. Just type in "water balloon Bazooka". Or, "water balloon Mortar". Thanks Hydroblast

06-10-2007, 07:05 PM	#13
Kalogagatya if my boss knew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 15 UserID: 1187	chemical pressurization a simple way to pressurize any chamber with water is to simpy drop a tiny bit of solid CO2 eheh i saw your site that was on the first post of this thread... you are a very insane man. EDIT: posts merged. If you need to add something within a couple of hours after posting, you can edit the old post to save clutter. Thanks. cool: Last edited by Silence : 06-10-2007 at 10:18 PM.

06-11-2007, 11:34 PM	#14
hydroblast Junior member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19 UserID: 1097	One insane Dude! I have a vivid imagination... what can I say. I'm open to suggestions. Anything you you can think of that needs making? The full auto ping pong ball chain gun is almost done, It works great!!! I would like to make a water gun that shoots water nuggets or pellets. Something like in Vegas, but portable. (Vegas has incredible water shows). Anyway thanks for your comments.

06-12-2007, 12:19 PM	#15
Kalogagatya if my boss knew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Porto, Portugal Posts: 15 UserID: 1187	hmm.. don't know if i got the picture: what you want is something that delivers a solid amount of water, with a perfectly defined flow line, in a burst fashion? for that you need a reduced friction water vessel (look for the teflon coated steel ones), connected to a gear pump with a high m^3/s value. (depending of course on the tube diameter and range you want to get from it). also try to minimize all sorts of curves and junctions. but i don't really know if that kind of assembly has something else.. i'm pretty sure it does have though....

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