Silver Bullet

[WaterWolf]

Ok then, how about this one?
Version 0.6:



I shortened the pump by two inches and moved one of the check-valves so i could pull the pump back a bit.
The reservoirs have been changed so as to spread the weight out a bit more.
The spot you put the hand closest to you holds onto the check valve between the reservoirs and behind the PC. While you can rest your front had on the pump or trigger.

@Joannaardway:
The pump actualy does draw water from the bottom. There had been some stuff in the line of view, so you may not have been able to see in V0.5, but it was there.

I tested using a measuring stick and found that the distance between the handle and the pump or between the handle and the trigger is quite comfortable.

The gun is now ~28 inches long and still holds approximately the same amount of water.

[Silence]

No, I think it draws water from the bottom. There's a vertical tube in the back leading to the pump.

But the fact is that no single design is the silver bullet, and the balance is what's going to harm this one. It looks like there's at least 2 feet of dead tubing space, and having multiple lengths of narrow reservoir tubing adds too much weight (as opposed to short lengths of wide tubing). If the gun falls, one of the massive side reservoirs, attached only by 1/2" PVC, is going to break off. And I don't see how the CPS case can come off for maintenance.

You could revise the design, but version 0.6 will probably have other flaws--all guns do. You could stop the reservoirs from doubling over but make them longer, you could replace the current pump with a semi-displacement pump, but there would still be problems.

No single design has no problems, but many single designs can have few problems.

EDIT: Didn't see your previous post.

Now the pump is incredibly short for such a huge gun. Bladder maintenance is still impossible. The horizontal tube above the PC (that wastes space) is elevated excessively. I'm not sure why the rear of the gun was redone--it's just bulky.

I'm not trying to shoot it down, I'm just pointing out the fact that all guns will inherently have problems.

[WaterWolf]

The PC isn't glued in and I left space enough so that you can slide it backwards then down out of the gun for maintenance.
And there are support pieces (The orange things) that help to keep the gun structurally strong.
Whenever I draw up a design with just one reservoir, it always looks too unwieldily.
I could post one if you really want, but I don't think its worth it.

The area you pointed out as "Dead tubing" is only seven inches long, and I had to put that there in order to allow the PC to slide off and allow a hand to grip the check-valve handle.

In the last post you were saying that the pump was sticking out, so I pulled it back by moving the check-valve and shortened it by only two inches so that the pump now has an eight-inch stroke. If you think thats too short, I'll lengthen it in the next revision.

BTW, this is not a "huge gun", its only 28-inches long and its weight is spread out to give it balance.

[WaterWolf]

First of all, sorry for double posting.
Now, I've made a few changes to try to help with balance, weight and price.
I've got two models and I want people to tell me which they like better.

V0.6.1.


And V0.6.2.


I've replaced the reservoirs with two 2-liter soda bottles with threaded adapters through their tops. (I've been experimenting with these lately.)
V0.6.1 is more compact at only ~22-inches long, but I think V0.6.2 has better balance and is only ~27-inches long, which isn't too cumbersome.
As it has been in past designs, the layout is such that the PC is able to be removed and for the LRT bladder to have maintenance work done on it.

When you post replies, it is fine to talk about problems you see with the design, but it would be appreciated if you would give some ideas on how to fix the issues, rather than just pointing them out.

[C-A_99]

Well, nice to see that the reservoir capacity won't be a problem now. However, I was never a fan of threaded reservoirs (they take a while to fill up and are rather annoying), perhaps caps could be made into them, but then again, those bottles are weak and need to be easily replaceable so that might not be a good idea. The other issue is having to position the gun vertically while pumping when the water supply is short. I also don't see the need for the dip where the reservoirs route to the first check valve. Just make it straight and put some block or something as a handle and PC case support.

What file format do you have these in? I'd like to have a look. As said, some minor flaws are too hard to correct, but nice job with these so far.

[WaterWolf]

The actual 3D file is in .blend format.
You can read them using the free Blender-3D program.
Blender is a fantastic animation program, the biggest complaint I have with it is its large learning curve, but you can download it for free at www.blender.org

These blue-prints are merely primitive drawings.
You can see some of my more detailed artwork here.


I had been leaving that piece of PVC looped like that as a handle, but I guess your right in that I could just make a handle out of a piece of PVC and a hose-clamp, I'll add that in the next design.
I also have an idea for how to make it easy to fill the reservoirs, I'll implement that in the next blue-prints as-well
With many guns you have to tip it upwards to get the last of the water and when I tried designs with the bottles flipped upright, it always looked too top-heavy and unbalanced.

EDIT:
I've made the suggested changes and found that by doing so I was able to shift the pump back quite a bit and extend its length back to the original 10-inches. I also added a Tee connector with a 1" threaded end-cap, so you can fill the gun like you would a normal soaker.

V0.6.3

[Silence]

Just saw the edit, thanks.

The only thing that really strikes me as awkward with this design is the fact that the reservoirs might get in the way of the pumping arm.

I would move the reservoirs down again, with the first check valve in the rear grip, the second check valve in the front, and a displacement pump. Balance wouldn't be too bad, simply because the grip would be somewhat lower and the pump not way above everything else.

I, personally, still would use a more conventional design with no parallel PCs and with the pump underneath. However, I haven't tried anything like this, so I can't say for sure.

I'd still watch to make sure the PC case can still come off, though. With your earlier designs, the PC case couldn't come off even though it could slide out of the reducer - you can't move it off to the side if the LRT is still flopping around inside. Technically, you could cut the tubing part in two, but that would be difficult.

[WaterWolf]

Part of the idea of this gun is that it IS highly unconventional.
Leap off the beaten path and strive boldly into the unknown/untried.

For the removable reservoir:
Step 1: Remove the back handle. (The one that is secured with a hose-clamp.)
Step 2: Slide the PC cover off and you have easy access to the bladder's inner workings.
Its as simple as that.

I looked at your design for a displacement pump and I'm somewhat dubious as to how well it would work. If you made a working model of it yourself... then I might start considering integrating it into the Silver-Bullet.

I'll mess around some with lowering the reservoirs with your ideas and see what I can come up with.

[Silence]

I like unconventionality. But you have to keep in mind the fact that a lot of problems can't be anticipated. Guns have been around for centuries, and water guns for decades - so ergonomically, they have at least some advantage.

However, N-Rev isn't too bad a concept - just keep in mind potential issues. We know the HydroBlitz has poor balance, so build off of its problems - keep the gun light and make sure it's easy to hold.

Yep, the PC case is fine here, but I pointed it out for the earlier designs because, unless you find space for a male adapter and a female adapter, you can't remove the stuff in the way. The problem will probably surface again if you move the reservoirs down.

The main problem with the displacement pump is the O-ring. Fixing the O-ring inside a tube, as opposed to outside, is far more difficult. When I figure out an easy way to get it to work, I'll let you know. On the other hand, tell me when you have a working model of this silver bullet. (Sorry, just had to say that. )

Oh, and the displacement pump was just me thinking outside the box. (Just had to say that too. )

[WaterWolf]

Yes, I understand that the displacement pump is thinking out-side the box, which is something I love. But I'm still not too sure how well that concept would work in real-life.

I'm not planning to build a working Silver-Bullet any time soon, I want to take lots of time to design it as close to perfection as possible.
I understand that there will always be something more to change and thus it would never get built, but I'd like to give it at-least a few more months of brain-storming before I begin construction.

Perhaps sometime next Fall or Winter I might build it, thats the time when I start focussing more on technological and tactical developments, since actual water-wars are out of the question due to cold.

[Silence]

The concept should work if you can set up the O-rings. The pump reduces the volume inside the tube. A large shaft would displace a lot of water, but it would restrict flow. Grooves can't be cut because then a simple O-ring wouldn't provide a good seal.

The displacement pump isn't as efficient as a standard pump because it displaces less and because of flow (unless you put the inlet by the opening and the outlet at the end). However, it does allow for some more design flexibility.

[DX]

However, N-Rev isn't too bad a concept - just keep in mind potential issues. We know the HydroBlitz has poor balance, so build off of its problems - keep the gun light and make sure it's easy to hold.

Just want to clear up this - "N-REV" doesn't just equal dual reservoir tubes with a pump on top. The name describes the extension of both Decisive Unconventionality and Decisive Versatility into homemade construction, which is an idea in the 3rd level of Physical Innovation in the Technical Theory. An N-REV gun can be of literally any shape, size, and function or combined functions. Example: You can probably recall past failed attempts to attach a water balloon launcher to a regular gun. They failed not just because of practicality issues, but also because they didn't go far enough in blending the definitions of gun and launcher. An N-REV hybrid or tribrid gun ideally would integrate them so well that the homemade could no longer be classified as a regular gun, cannon, or launcher.

I've been working on a pair of guns - both with shapes best explained as unexplainable, makes the dual reservoirs look highly conventional. The first is a plain air pressure homemade, with a design that looks more like the inner workings of a computer than a water gun. Instead of being a peripheral, the reservoir is the anchor of the design, with the pc, valves, and pump snaking around and even through it. Balance is purposely slanted to the right corner due to the grip configurations in an experiment to attain near-perfect balance in a mathematically totally unbalanced design. The other is an attempt at a practical tribrid of gun, cannon, launcher. I've blown hours sitting in the basement arranging parts together and taking them apart.

That was kind of long and unnecessary, but I just want to make sure that N-REV is not characterized as an unconventional design, but an idea spanning infinite possible unconventional designs which push the human mind to its limits.

As for the gun at hand, Silent Guy has pointed out the current issues. Personally, I would try to solve them by tapping even deeper into the N-REV concept. If the current configuration doesn't cut it, and the conventional configurations don't cut it, then the only option remaining is to keep going through the gray zone. There has to be a configuration which solves the balance and pc issues. If all the known designs falter, then it may be a design that has not yet been thought of or thought possible.

I, personally, still would use a more conventional design with no parallel PCs and with the pump underneath. However, I haven't tried anything like this, so I can't say for sure.

I would only "withdraw" to the safety of conventionality if you know that a new design can't solve the problems you want solved. I'll of course concede that a new design might open up new problems of its own. However, just because the first 5 streams don't contain gold doesn't mean that you should throw the pan away.

[WaterWolf]

Ok, V0.6.4 with lowered reservoirs and a stock for your sholder where the pipe turns downwards. We would of course want to have some straps holding the reservoirs to the PC cover in order to help prevent them from braking off.

[Silence]

I understand what N-REV is - I was saying that if you plan on defying all conventionality, make sure you thoroughly investigate the design for problems. The current weapon configuration has gone through many evolutions, and most of the flaws have been worked out. When Johnson first created the Super Soaker (or the Power Drencher or whatever it was before), he didn't predict that the bottle reservoirs would be an issue. With guns that had ball valves like the XP 300, the company didn't predict people would prefer a gun with a trigger (why else isn't the SS 300 fetching $200 on eBay?).

[isoaker_com]

The SS300 is probably too flimsy for most people which is why it seems undervalued.

As for triggers versus ball valves, I still think it's a matter of preference and overall design. If a homemade is made such that pumping is minimal to attain adequate pressure, whether using a normal trigger or a ball-valve trigger isn't as critical, IMO. Besides, ball-valve triggers like on the SS300 make one feel like one is using a heavier gattling-gun-type soaker.

Of course, design and ease of use is still most critical when it comes to any soaker; stock or homemade.