Silver Bullet

[Ben]

My goals were pretty optimistic.

In cross country I was consistently around 18:00 the entire season. Sometimes I went a little below, sometimes I went a little over (though the state meet was about a minute slower, but that's a really hard course for most people). In indoor track, I did about as well as I thought I could in the 500, and I'll admit I was impeded a bit by my weight (I still placed 6th at states). For my 400 split of the 4x400, I was consistently low 53s and high 52s. HCC's times are about two seconds slower than outdoor times, so that's right around where I should be to get in the 50s in the 400. Though, I think I should also note that last year I improved 4 seconds from my fastest indoor 400 time to my fastest outdoor 400 time. Right now I'm looking forward to the outdoor season where I'll be running 800 more often. That's a much more strategic race and I think I'm good with strategy.

When it comes down to it, backpack use really is more up to the individual. Some people, as you noted, are bad with added weight. However, just because they are bad with added weight doesn't mean others are. This is partially why I don't think any sort of "battle practicality" rating is valuable because a lot of things come down to personal preference. Some people seriously underrate backpacks likely due to their own personal experiences with them. They work great for others, in fact, I think they work great for the majority of people. That's partially why I consider my CPS homemade water gun pretty much as close to the "silver bullet" as it can be. If you are very mobile with a backpack, there is no reason not to use one.

Armor is different than backpacks because it impedes mobility of the joints, as opposed to weight. That's their issue. From what I know, most armor used is designed to be light.

[DX]

By citing personal preference, you are actually applying Battle Practicality, as "personal preference" is just a factor of Relative Battle Practicality in its natural form. It is kind of my fault for not defining the concept and then chasing an objective system for it. An objective system does not do it justice. You can play RBP down all you want [universal "you" by the way], but it ranks with the Initiative and the Ladder of Innovation in importance. Other concepts also rely on RBP, as everything in a relative system like water warfare is inter-connected. RBP can even be used as a weapon in the right situations, as with all Natural Limits and all of the abstract ideas at that.

As for backpacks, there is no right or wrong. However, nothing should ever be underrated. As applied to backpacks, I am fully aware of the destructive power they have on my reflexes, endurance, reaction time, internal energy, external energy, and agility, am fully aware of how the benefits of backpack use are drowned out by those effects, hence I make my choice well-educated. I don't regret it either, having been hit only twice in the past 8 wars.

Ability to move is not just running and positioning. My fighting style requires the ability to dive [down or through], roll, jump, spin, twist, turn, duck, and often several of those at once and often while in full sprinting motion or after having run for miles. I've seen things done that no one could ever physically do while wearing a backpack, regardless of strength and endurance. While some members of the team do choose to wear them, they rarely carry reservoirs.

Also, I tend to avoid using most or majority without giving as many contexts as necessary. Most water warriors don't play organized war, and no one can tell how many of those in organized war do use backpacks. Citing majority of all users is a flawed stat for anything due to the shortcomings of users in unorganized war representing users of both war types. It is basically a comparison of the Novice Progression or Caliber against all the others [99% of everyone who has ever touched a water gun are of Novice Progression and/or Caliber]. There is such a severe skew that the comparison does not give useful information other than sounding good. Citing the majority of people in organized war would be another matter entirely.

Your [not universal you] CPS design as it is now could not be used as the Silver Bullet because of the reliance on a backpack. The ideal Silver Bullet is the ultimate practical gun for the vast majority of users in organized wars - while that can't happen, it can be the ultimate practical for a certain context. Not all users like backpacks, so the Silver Bullet needs to respond to that. The Silver Bullet also has to equal or surpass all other guns in versatility, but not necessarily power. I've been worried about homemade versatility in all the conventional designs [obviously not worried about power]. Having gone through every progression level and having fought in many types of terrain in many types of battlefields, I have a very good understanding of versatility and how homemades need a ton of work in that regard. The reason that I think modded guns are still more practical than homemades in certain contexts is factors other than range, output, and stuff that can be measured. It is the stuff that you can't measure that is the most dangerous and most decisive. Then again, that is personal preference, and also therefore an attempt to satisfy Relative Battle Practicality instead of fighting/ignoring it and running into usability problems.

Also, all this tension has to happen due to very different fighting styles. Contrary to what was mentioned earlier though, a fighting style is not progression, a fighting style is made of everything relating to how you fight - progression, game type, local rules, caliber, preference, natural limits, battlefield, physical ability, experience, roles, memory, everything that affects you personally. There can be no one solution to the backpack issue, since there is no universal fighting style. There are hundreds of solutions, all highly relative, so I don't see the point of continuing. This argument has become black and white in an era where black and white issues are dead. The community is NOT ready for the Next Revolution, I'm not even ready because even I haven't really seen just how relative water wars have become.

[joannaardway]

I suppose that the fact I'm 6' 1" and weigh 140-150 pounds (it varies somewhat, depending.) may be part of the difference.

My brother weighs something like 180lbs (which is pure muscle), and is another 2" taller than me, and carries a 1 stone backpack into school each day, which means that most water packs are a piddling thing to him.

I'll admit that my favourite soaker (the CPS 2700) has got the largest tank ever built into a single piece soaker. That's not a problem, but it only holds half of what the CPS 3200 holds. And even though people have complained about the 3200 backpack, it doesn't actually annoy me.

Interestingly - Under DX's criteria, if I finished the mods on my CPS 27K, (including the homemade trigger valve) actually, it would meet all of the requirements - and actually exceed some of them.

At what point is the line crossed when a stock soaker is so modded/repaired that it becomes a homemade?

It would seem we've set our sights for this a little low.

[Ben]

DX, when I say that most people prefer backpacks, I say it from what polls I've seen. Now, I realize that this poll could have been rigged back at the IPB board, but vB records who voted for what after that and if you click on the link you can see that. That record and the overall record both show at least a 2 to 1 preference for backpacks. And these people are not novices. Most people who search for water guns on the internet, much less post at a water gun forum, are dedicated. I can only assume that most people overall would prefer not to have a backpack because more kids use water guns in that group.

If you value rolling around, I don't think backpacks are for you. I do think however that by avoiding a backpack design you get problems, mainly with cost and balance. The main problem with backpacks is that many people may simply not be strong enough to use them, but I think those people definitely are in the minority for dedicated water gun users.

I also realize that personal preference is suppose to factor into "battle practicality," so you know that I don't like blanket statements that seem to remove any personal preference. I mainly was refering to the notion that water guns should receive a score rating... we know that's not an accurate reflection of every factor involved.

Perhaps a silver bullet design should exist for both backpack and non-backpack designs. I seriously think that my CPS water gun (might as well call it SuperCPS or something else along those lines) is the closest to any "silver bullet" we have seen and likely will remain that way for some time. That may just be the backpack "silver bullet" design. I personally would not use a design without a backpack and I don't really see any serious disadvantages to such a choice. Others seem to think included reservoirs are have advantages as well. Designs for both seem only to fit everyone's preferences better.

What's this so-called "Next Revolution" anyway?

[WaterWolf]

Ok, heres the tentative new V0.3.2 that I promised with the pump and handle underneath.



Personally, I think it now looks top-heavy and somewhat unbalanced.

[Ben]

I'll agree that it looks top heavy now, but it definitely is balanced better. With a strap, this design would be much more usable as well.

[WaterWolf]

I was just thinking, what if you made the PC a sealed chamber and allowed the air-pressure to build-up along with the pressure created by the LRT.

Would it turn back into an APH gun or keep some of its CPS qualities? Would the air plus the rubber give it improved ranges or would they stay the same?

Discuss.

[Ben]

That's not a very good idea. It's been discussed time and time again. The idea most definitely will increase the power, but again, as I said before, the power of a pump based water gun is mainly limited to how much work you put in.

The main problem with pressurizing the air on the outside of the rubber chamber is that the water gun no longer is CPS. At that point, it'd be easier and cheaper just to increase the pressure in an air pressure water gun. The gun still would have more constant pressure than simple air pressure, but if you don't have very constant pressure, there's not much of an advantage.

The second problem is constructing such a chamber. You'd need to dremel and sand out a fitting to get a pipe through a reducing fitting (I've done it before and believe me, it's a messy task as far as PVC goes). That's not difficult, just uncommon. The chamber also will have to be openable to replace the rubber later. That alone bring in numerous problems, mainly the problem that larger pipe threads don't seal very well and are hard to work with.

The third problem is that the extra stress on the rubber will cause it to degrade more quickly. That's pretty much self-explanatory. I also don't want to know how the water gun will jump around when the chamber pops on the inside of the PVC.

If you're set on getting more power from a CPS system, just add more layers of rubber.

Now, if you think this is a really good idea, go ahead and prove me wrong. I haven't built anything like this, but what I say is what I am completely sure will happen. At least I think I'm completely sure.

[Silence]

Heh, I voted in that poll...back when I enjoyed reviving dead topics and before I started realizing I didn't like backpacks. Bandwagon choice, anyone?

Silver bullets really can't suit anybody. Backpack/non-backpack is yet another difference, although your playing style probably depends a bit on your "progression."

I think joannaardway's "CPS 2700" (in quotations to note the modding) , Ben's CPHs, and DX's N-Rev all show that no one design is the silver bullet and that no one design is perfect. Which is part of why it's somewhat pointless to just draw models in CAD, no offense, or discuss fine details online. A performance rating system is okay if you also take into account personal preference and quirks of the gun.

Ben, I'll be quite surprised if a CPS homemade info article isn't part of the new site update.

[DX]

After more reflection, I am doubtful that there even can be a silver bullet homemade. You can design "a" practical gun, but not "the" practical gun. In addition to all the various factors, you've also got people who simply like to customize designs they see online. When I built my first dual chamber APH, it came out a bit differently than the one in Ben's article. Even the most universal of designs can use minor tweaks here and there for personal considerations.

I do think however that by avoiding a backpack design you get problems, mainly with cost and balance.

Cost probably, though I'd say weight more than balance. I've shown how a gun can have both good lateral balance and good vertical balance. That's easy. The weight however, is the annoying part of an onboard reservoir.

What's this so-called "Next Revolution" anyway?

I'm not ready to explain it yet, as I am honestly not sure what the details are yet. The Next Revolution is not something I have the power to define, I can only interpret it as I discover more about it through writing Theory articles. The general gist is that in the future, tech users may be able to create such innovative homemades, launchers, etc. that the landscape of wars changes. The reciprocal effect would be new counters and alterations to Relative Battle Practicality. This would be a never-ending cycle of unconventional thinking producing new problems and new solutions. This can also work on a more limited scale without the tech component when necessary. If everyone is constantly finding new uses of both old and new tactics, strategies, and attitudes, the way wars are fought will be flipped upside down. This kind of environment would encourage not only shaking up the way things are done in the system, but shaking up the system itself. Basically, the Next Revolution would instill an exciting, innovative, and unconventional spirit in water warfare, opening up opportunities we would have never dreamed of before. The type of creativity made possible in this new age should also be able to redefine what water wars really are capable of being to the general public. They are not just a mindless game; they can promote thinking more effectively than some forms of traditional education.

[WaterWolf]

Wow, and my team will most likely be there at the start of that revolution as-well as living at the hight of this one.

@DX:
So DX, what do you think of the Silver-Bullet at its current design phase? What needs improving to make it more practical?

Something I forgot to mention before is that I plan to have at-least two layers of LRT in the PC.

@Ben:
Do you think three layers would work out well?

[DX]

So DX, what do you think of the Silver-Bullet at its current design phase? What needs improving to make it more practical?

Well, I personally wouldn't use the gun as it is currently. The power would be really high, but I still have concerns about versatility and filling speed and the replacing of the pump creates new issues with vertical balance, durability, and comfort. However, that appears to be just me, as I value those things equal to if not above firing stats.

My friend accidentally dropped my original APR 2000 and the pump broke off. The gun does not even weigh much and there's no weight directly on the pump. Now if you dropped this gun with those heavy reservoirs, that pump is totally gone. Judging by the size and weight of the reservoirs when full, I'd probably drop it a few times, first due to the lack of vertical balance and then trying to figure out the best way to hold it. I've mentioned several times why I think a conventional pump position contradicts the purpose of an N-Rev style reservoir, but I won't press that matter anymore. After all, my fighting style requires very strict practicality at Fluid progression, Hardcore Pro caliber, medium-large heavily-forested variable elevation battlefields, 1HS game family, ubiquitous position, veteran experience, veteran team, veteran enemy. It is really difficult for any design to meet those specifications. In my context, the "Silver Bullet" homemade has to benchmark against the CPS 1100, 21K, and 2500 for range, # of taps, stream speed, versatility, durability, weight/balance, and RBP.

[WaterWolf]

Ok then, heres version 0.4.



I lightened the load some with 2" reservoirs.
Do you think we could make the PC covering out of that thin-wall PVC instead of the thick-wall? Because we don't need it to hold pressure and it would lighten the weight still further.

[DX]

The only problem with 2" is that the pc will drain the reservoirs quite quickly. It is all one big balancing act - the reservoirs have to be as large as possible without being a burden. You could more easily get away with a conventional pump position with those 2" reservoirs, though I still think it would be awkward. As it is now, the vertical balance is about as perfect as you can get. There's been plenty of skepticism about pumps atop a gun, yet no one besides myself has actually tried one. Works the same way with the backpack issue and homemades themselves - it is easy to doubt anything that deviates from the "tried-and-true" method of doing things. Personally, I am never content with what is available and always looking for new solutions, so if it means throwing all the rules out the window in the process, then so be it. I'm a changed person.

[WaterWolf]

Actually, I did some calculations and with the current reservoirs, the PC can be refilled three times before you need a reload.

I really like the pump configuration and I think I'd like to stick with it.