Silver Bullet

[DX]

The real reason for using a standard pump is sheer convenience. It takes a lot less effort and work to produce one and it works just fine for this - you don't even need a handle. Tracked pumps used to be the standard for all of my homemades, so I'd know. The effort and time it takes to make a single tracked pump sucks. Actual performance is identical though.

The pump should be slightly lower, but not too much. You hand should easily clear the valve and if you can eliminate some space, I'd do it.

[Ben]

@Ben/Silence- What would happen if you stretched the LRT when you assembled the gun, to make the LRT be as long as it would be inflated? Would this not work?

In my original CPS water gun, I did consider stretching the tubing. The problem is that stretching the tubing enough to compensate for this completely is difficult. Some tension is easy to make, but enough to make a difference is hard. That and I'd imagine that since the tubing isn't contracting in one direction, power would be much lower.

I personally feel that the pump should be below the PCs and reservoir. Currently the gun just looks plain awkward to I think a water gun made nearly exactly like the one I made with the reservoir just below the PCs. The reservoirs can be a little bit to the left of the handle (with the nozzle to the left). This would work out fine and balance perfectly, especially with the strap that is currently being used. Once I get a bit more money, I will upgrade that water gun to be a single-piece unit and have more power. I think it's as close as we can get to a cheap and easy to build "silver bullet" as possible. In honesty, I can not think of any change I would make in addition to the ones I have said.

WaterWolf, could you please crop the images you post in the future? There's a lot of white space around the edges.

[WaterWolf]

I'll make sure to crop in future.

I had placed the pump/handle at its current configuration because Duxbrian had used that on his latest homemade and said that it helped to balance it well.
What do you think Dux?

I'll lower the pump in the next update.
But I can't quite understand what you mean though when you wrote:

"The reservoirs can be a little bit to the left of the handle (with the nozzle to the left)."

Could you elaborate?

[DX]

When I was designing the N-Rev Challenger, I knew exactly how I would have to hold it and that affected pump placement. The pump is in almost the perfect position for that gun [it could be like an inch lower]. For the Silver Bullet, you want the pump wherever it complements the grip. For reservoirs that size in the N-Rev position, I would personally not put the pump in the conventional position beneath them. The pump of the Next Revolution design is out of the way, for there is more to the shape of the bottom of the gun. It can be placed on the ground facing up [other homemades must be on their side], you can easily mount it on just about anything, and you can use it as a shield [and pump and block at the same time]. The design is meant to maximize versatility, considering the Progression level it was built for.

But the placement of the pump here is not my call. Put it wherever you think it makes the most sense, given what the gun should be capable of doing. There is no "wrong" position. I obviously would make the most ugly gun in the world if it performed well, but looks matter in various degrees with various people.

There are 2 "u"s in "Duxburian". That's one of the reasons why I am now "DX" on every site except iScF - I've seen the full word butchered beyond belief, though it is right on the screen. Of course no offense is meant to anyone who has done that, as people have butchered my real first name with its 3 letters and all.

[WaterWolf]

There are 2 "u"s in "Duxburian". That's one of the reasons why I am now "DX" on every site except iScF - I've seen the full word butchered beyond belief, though it is right on the screen.

lol, sry about that. Anyway, back on topic.
I like your new idea for placement and I think I'll stick with it, just shorten the grip a little bit.

When I'm drawing up designs, I keep everything fairly close to its real scale size, so I can measure it to figure out the approximate dimensions in reality.

With the handle shortened, its measurements are:
24-inches long by 8-inches wide and 7-inches tall.

Not to bad if I do say so myself, quite compact.

To give you something to relate against, the CPS-1500/1700 has the following dimensions:
26-inches long by 5-inches wide and 13-inches tall.

[Silence]

I have no firsthand knowledge about the CPS system. Just from reading old threads and Ben's posts.

Balance is as important as the weight is. Part of why a measurement of weight itself isn't that specific for battle practicality formulas.

The HydroBlitz is going to be easy to hold, even with a ton of weight. Miniguns such as the M134 weigh 100 pounds, but you can carry it because of where the weight is placed. Bullpup rifles can be easy to hold because the weight is closer to your shoulder. You might wonder why I am referring to real weapons, but those weapons are designed to be ergonomic.

Perhaps you can take a lot of weight and bulkiness with a design like this, but I would much rather have the weight up near my torso. The water gun would be much more "pointable" that way.

Alright...I can somewhat understand how people can misspell Duxburian. But Rob? That's such a common name...

[CROC]

I agree that balance is important, and that gun doesn't look too balanced (What I mean is it would be awkward to carry around, and would be heavy near the front)
If you move some of the configuration further backwards, and maybe made the reservoir go around the arm, it might be easier to carry
~CROC~

[WaterWolf]

@Silence:
On the current design, you put one hand on the handle and put the other hand on the valve, with 17" between them. The weight then rests on your hip/torso and (with a strap) on your shoulder.

@Croc:
I can't quite see how you think its unbalanced, perhaps could you elaborate on what changes you would make.
Its got a good vertical balance since the reservoirs are lowered. And the PC is located in the middle of the gun, which keeps it from being too nose heavy.
What do you mean by:

Maybe made the reservoir go around the arm, it might be easier to carry.

?

[C-A_99]

I think he's refering to more conventional super soaker designs, where the volume of water isn't so spread out. (yet still balances reasonably well)

[joannaardway]

In my opinion, a "Silver Bullet" homemade would have to have a backpack, because they add so much to practicality. Anyone who has ever used the CPS 3000/3200 realises how much easier it makes holding the thing.

It may not be everyone's opinion, but I prefer keeping the weight on my back.

[C-A_99]

Backpacks can also carry equiptment (well, that depends on the backpack obviously), another convinience, especially if you don't have stuff to clip on those things. Some will complain that it impairs mobility, but even younger ones can wear one, just load it with less if necessary. I haven't used a backpack gun (on my way to though), but I doubt the tubing interferes that much with battle and usage.

I suppose people who don't like backpacks complain about it feeling restrictive and when you take them off the blaster needs to be seperated from the backpack.

[Silence]

WaterWolf: It's hard to point a gun if it's suspended from your hands. If it's heavy with the center of gravity far away, it'll just swing around as you turn. I want the gun's body right at my chest, next to my body's center of gravity, so I can turn my body and my gun at the same time.

Originally Posted by joannaardway

In my opinion, a "Silver Bullet" homemade would have to have a backpack, because they add so much to practicality. Anyone who has ever used the CPS 3000/3200 realises how much easier it makes holding the thing.

It may not be everyone's opinion, but I prefer keeping the weight on my back.

Yep, depends on fighting style--DX might use the term "progression" or whatever.

Have you ever tried running with a heavy backpack on? After about 50 meters, you start to feel the pain. The straps bounce, the weight shifts, and impulse makes your shoulders sore.

The backpack's inertia is also no good for jumping around and maneuvering. I'm looking outside my window right now, let me give an example of what I might do in a battle:
1. Run and jump off a 4 foot wall
2. Turn around the corner of the house, going up the stairs, while twisting and firing.
3. Fire and sidestep as the enemy pies the corner, jumping off a ledge to my right.
4. Run as the enemy fires and misses, charging up a long slope.
5. Sweep around and give chase as the enemy pumps.
6. Continue running while sidestepping to flank as the enemy turns.
7. Charge to get a bit closer for firing, while continuing to sidestep.

Perhaps I don't do all those things at once, but that's essentially what I do. Close-range, suburban fighting, around a few houses, with some fairly varied "terrain." I'm also faster than everybody I fight with, so I run a lot--not good with a backpack.

[WaterWolf]

@Silence:
Hmm, now I can see your point. I'll draw up a version with the handle/pump underneath and the chamber pulled backwards, giving it better balance for what your thinking.
Then lets look at it and compare it with V0.3.

I'll probably have the computer model ready tomorrow, because I've got other stuff that I need to get done tonight.

Keep up the brainstorming.

[Ben]

Backpacks seem to split most people. I do know that a lot of people (myself included) wouldn't go without one. I personally think that backpacks have too numerous advantages to not use them.

I think the argument that backpacks somehow impede movement is misinformed. I don't know how much water most people assume backpacks hold, but 20 pounds is fairly light and that's 9 liters, which is higher than most backpacks will hold. And, the weight is much more spread out. Carrying large water guns with your arms is much more tiring than holding a lighter gun with the water on another muscle group.

Heavy backpacks aren't the way to go. I go hiking a lot and I've been told that a backpack should never exceed a third of your weight, or even better, 20 percent. No water gun backpack will exceed 20 percent of your weight unless you put like 15 liters in there or you weigh less than 120 pounds.

Anyway, many (probably most) actual soldiers do wear some sort of backpack and have no trouble moving around. Every situation you've mentioned SilentGuy really isn't trouble for backpacks. Perhaps these situations are trouble for you, but I don't think most will have trouble with them.

What matters much more than anything is one's ability to move. I'd like to see any of you keep up with me regardless of what I was using, whether it was a regular water gun or a backpack. Now of course, most people aren't in as good physical shape as I am in. During a Boy Scout hiking trip, I had the heaviest pack and consistently was at the top of the pack with a few others. But, no one complained about lack of mobility. In fact, frame backpacks were used because they are the best for mobility.

@WaterWolf: I think most everyone else covered what I said. I'm not quite completely sure however, so I'll wait to see your new interpretation of what they said.

[Silence]

I'm lightly built and short at that--5'4" and 100 pounds. I have little bone, muscle, or fat mass--no strength whatsoever. I'm not the best at sprinting, but I'm fairly agile and can jump around a lot. So backpacks really don't suit me very well.

That said, not everybody is underweight (according to BMI) like Duxburian and I are. I don't fire often either, so I don't need much capacity.

I'm decent at running the mile and 5K, and going uphill I'm fine even at sprinting. Perhaps it's my running style or build or something, but I slow down more than others with weight on my back and I get sore shoulders quickly.

So I can't speak for most, but I don't like running with a backpack. The military situation you brought up does have some truth, but many soldiers are dumping some of their "armor" because they aren't as mobile as enemies who have no armor.

EDIT: On a side note, did you meet any of your season's goals for running? My 5K greatly improved in the first meet, but went downhill the rest of the Cross Country season due to tendinitis.