Silver Bullet

[WaterWolf]

@DX:
All put in better words than I myself could.

That said, if you like back-pack guns, then Ben's design probably IS the way to go. But there are many people who (like myself) prefer more mobility.

I own a CPS 3200 and a CPS 1700.
I've used both and personally still prefer the non-backpack soaker, though I can see where the CPS 3200 would come into its element and become a more choice soaker.

As DX pointed out, the CPS 1500/1700's weight is fairly difficult to hold if you try to do it with one hand, so by using the new configuration of reservoirs, this homemade should be easier to wield.

Think about a sword.
If it is point-heavy, then it will be harder to strike with precision or react to block. But if the blade is well balanced, its hits can be placed where you want them with ease.

[Ben]

That said, if you like back-pack guns, then Ben's design probably IS the way to go. But there are many people who (like myself) prefer more mobility.

Why do you think backpacks are less mobile? I feel faster with a backpack. With a backpack, I bet I could run faster than any of you without a backpack. Backpacks don't limit mobility substantially. I see a slight reduction, but I do not see a major problem. This myth needs to be addressed.

Here's my challenge: I'll take on ANYONE in a 1vs1 "both sides of the shirt" battle with a backpack. You decide how "immobile" I am.

Your thoughts on N-Rev are pre-theory. The current function of N-Rev design is to expand the overall pool of homemade designs by trying out new ideas. Like the defense of tactics in the next paragraph, the design ideas can be ignored at will by those who do not wish to use them, but they should be allowed to exist. All the options should be available. The most obvious use of N-Rev at the moment is shaping reservoirs to fit a gun, rather than just attaching them and hoping for the best.

So, what is N-Rev again? It seems to me it's just trying out new ideas. I thought that was the point of homemade water guns to begin with!

N-Rev is improvements in water gun design. But, no one didn't want to improve water gun design. Sounds more like hype to me than any actual improvements. This is why I don't like the entire N-Rev concept. It's more hype than improvement. Have I not been trying out new ideas? I honestly don't see how the "N-Rev" concept is anything new.

And a lack of innovation isn't a bad thing. Something can be an innovation simply by combining the best of previous knowledge. I consider my CPH to be not innovation, but a combination of the knowledge I acquired when I tried to build my first CPH. Then again, as the first "full" homemade CPS water gun, it was an innovation for the time. But my point stands. Combining known working elements might not innovate, but it does result in a good water gun.

Knowledge of every tactic known to man is not needed. However, I don't see why we should be limited to just a couple of simple things.

You don't understand my point. Limited knowledge isn't helpful. Neither is having so much there's no possible way you can learn it all (or even write it all in your case). I could see a Tactical Theory basics set of articles that would be the groundwork for more advanced things.

The weight of my APH is all in the pcs, it is extremely top-heavy and wobbles when you hold it. The Challenger's weight is all in the reservoirs, it is very easy to hold without strain on either hand.

I believe I brought this up with you a few years ago. In your APH style designs, you removed the handle. That makes a huge difference. I actually tried holding the gun they way I imagined you would before and it was very unstable. The distance between the tee and PCs is too long, contributing to any "wobble." And you never used a strap. I'm not saying a strap fixes all balance problems, but they help significantly. There's a reason you use them after all.

If you build an APH more similar to my design, I'm sure you wouldn't complain about balance. I never thought the balance was poor, so this entire balance issue is a surprise to me.

[WaterWolf]

Since only your designs seem to work, I am leaving this thread as of now. To develop and build the SB for my team in private.
I'm not saying this in aggression, but as a simple personal choice.

[Ben]

WaterWolf, if you didn't want a discussion about which features would be valuable, why post the thread? If you just listened to your own ideas, there's no point in asking for help. I am providing my help and if you don't like it, just don't take it! That was the point of my post a while ago.

Many people have privately accused me of only promoting "my idea" and instead they went ahead and did what they wanted. Everyone's an expert. Not surprisingly some came back later emailing me "You were right! I should have listened to your advice." It's advice. Take it or leave it. DX could easily be accused of the same thing, as could you.

I don't have a problem with others' ideas or suggestions. I've taken a lot of ideas from other things. When I see success, I see no reason not to duplicate it. What I don't like is discarding perfectly good ideas. Is there a personal choice factor? Definitely. But is someone's opinion swayed by errors in design or another factor? Definitely as well.

I understand the desire to do what you want and somehow other ideas feel like an attack on your own. Believe me, I've been in that situation one too many times. But in the end, I'll concede if I'm truly wrong and add important features. The goal is a better water gun and if I'm wrong about an idea, that's okay. I've been wrong more than right, but with time I have become more sure of what works and doesn't.

With all that being said, I would still like to hear some good reasons why backpacks decrease mobility. Backpacks increase mobility in my book by allowing you to carry the same amount more easily and more water for the same amount of effort. This allows you to go more distance without refilling. That is an improvement in an aspect of mobility. Speed isn't decreased much because weight isn't increased that much. Even if you add 10 liters of water (22 pounds, perhaps 25 with containers included), if you weigh 140 pounds, that's only an 18% increase in weight. More people would be more than satisfied with 8 liters. And the weight will decrease as you continue. (For me, if I add 8 liters of water in a backpack, that's only an 13% increase in weight.)

I am willing to do tests with and without a backpack comparing raw speed and agility to prove my point. If you value mobility, do some training to get improved speed over everyone else and then use a backpack. Your mobility will still be greater than the others' and you will have more water. A win-win situation. If your speed and agility is decreased substantially by adding a backpack, that does not indicate an inherent problem in the backpack, rather, it indicates to me that you are not strong enough for a backpack and should either reduce the weight of the backpack or use a one-piece water gun.

Now that I think about it, a single, long 4 inch sewer pipe reservoir under my basic CPH design would make a VERY solid one-piece water gun with balance similar to the Flash Flood. With an intake port on the bottom of the endcap, the water would flow in at all important angles. There's my last suggestion.

[Silence]

Backpacks are just uncomfortable for me...I can't say they slow me down so much. Maybe I'm jaded because I've tried to run long distances with a third of my weight on my shoulders, but it's not a fun experience. I really ought to try it again under water warfare conditions, though. Ben, I have no doubt you could outrun me under any conditions.

On the issue of stability, to each his own. I can say I've never noticed a problem with balance (or lack thereof), and I'm not even a strong guy.