Super Soaker Central forums

mr. dude · 03-10-2007, 01:28 PM

Update:
I have parts of the PC's now. 1'x3" PVC, 1 3" endcap (all they had), and reducers to 3/4", all pressure-rated at 140psi. Now I need a second endcap, 2 3/4" threaded tees, and 3 3/4" threaded male joints, as well as a spring-loaded check valve.
I have a reservoir, and will glue it to an endcap (with a hole drilled in it obviousy), which will go on the intake check valve. I also built the pump, but it broke, so I'll have to make a new one and reinforce it.

Scavenger · 03-15-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentGuy

You can make your own valves; take a look at the designs Waterzooka and I were discussing.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but do you mind a link? That's exactly what I've been needing for a while.

CROC · 03-16-2007, 10:03 AM

It's not really hijacking if you're asking for a link to it, but here it is:
Design for a homemade valve

mr. dude · 03-26-2007, 06:49 PM

The main soaker is complete, now I just need a reservoir. The swing valves work surprisingly well. My question: is it normal for the 3/8" nozzle to have more of a kick than the 3/4" riot blast?

Silence · 03-26-2007, 07:33 PM

Maybe, or maybe it's just the perceived recoil. My riot blast kinda just poops out of the barrel - I don't see why it's used so much, and I don't see why 3/4" tubing is necessary. Just means more money and a tighter ball valve.

The 3/8" nozzle should still have a good amount of recoil, and the thing is it'll last longer. With the riot blast, everything probably happens too suddenly to notice.

CROC · 03-26-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. dude

And since when was it dangerous to have pressurized air in PVC?

If you must know exactly what he said to me when I was there, he said that when PVC is left out in the sun, it heats up, rapidly increasing the pressure inside the chamber very quickly. Since the sch 40 pipe there is a dark colour (Canadian, excuse the spelling), it would absorb more light than say, white PVC, so it would reach high pressures quickly. You wouldn't even need a bike pump for a douchenator with that PVC

Silence · 03-26-2007, 09:03 PM

Interesting. Did he tell you how much the temperature increase was?

The temperature would have had to increase a ton, at least inside the tubing. Temperature and pressure are only proportional from absolute zero, or -460 degrees Fahrenheit.

mr. dude · 03-26-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

My riot blast somewhat just poops out of the barrel

Same with mine. I was expecting a giant blast that would knock me to the ground (I tend to loosen up when using powerful soakers just for the recoil, even a FF will push me relatively violently), but it does just poop (great term, I'll use that a lot

).

CROC · 03-26-2007, 09:22 PM

No, he didn't say what temperature increase, but warned me that gas expands quickly in an enclosed area that is darker in colour, which attracts the heat more than the lighter colours, therefore increasing the pressure, which, I was warned would explode in shards if it gets above the 120psi limit.

Silence · 03-26-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. dude

Same with mine. I was expecting a giant blast that would knock me to the ground (I tend to loosen up when using powerful soakers just for the recoil, even a FF will push me relatively violently), but it does just poop (great term, I'll use that a lot ).

Well, at least I've got an eye for what I'm looking to do next. My next homemade is going to be a CPH, and very similar to stock guns--pull valve, smaller diameter tubing, etc.

And yes, I love that term. I picked it up from my neighbor, I don't really get to use it too often. 'Tis a pity. :P

Well, I'd trust the guy on the pressures just to be safe, but that really is weird. A change in temperature from 50 degrees to 150 degrees Fahrenheit, or 510 to 610 from absolute zero, could only raise an 80 PSI tank to 96 PSI. Or a 100 PSI tank to 120 PSI. And that's an extreme temperature change. I wouldn't bring the gun so close to explosion point anyway if I knew it could explode in such a situation.

DX · 03-26-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

At Lowe's, anything around 2" or above is cellcore. (I'm not sure exactly where they start using cellcore)

Ya'll gotta mention that these things are specific to local area. Both my closest Lowes and closest Home Depot carry pressure rated pipe all the way to 6". It's damn expensive, but it's there.

Quote:

Yeah, it might be worthwhile to make your own check valves , if you can find the parts. Brass is far more expensive than PVC, and it sounds like you can get smaller sizes in PVC

I chart price comparisons when shopping for parts [all data as of past month, but keep in mind that prices change like daily]:

Brass 1/2" check valve at local Home Depot: $5.40
Brass 3/4" check valve at Home Depot: $5.85
Brass 1" check valve at Home Depot: $6.10

PVC 1/2" check valve at local Lowes: $5.15
PVC 3/4" check valve at Lowes: $5.35
PVC 1" check valve as Lowes: $5.75

There's not much of a price difference, unless ~30-50 cents counts as "far more expensive".

Brass 1/2" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $4.20
Home Depot: $5.45
Sears: $6.99 [$1.99 on Wednesday sales]
Home Hardware: $5.99

PVC 1/2" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $5.35
Home Depot: $4.10
Sears: DNE
Home Hardware: DNE

Brass 3/4" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $6.75
Home Depot: $7.55
Sears: $10.99 [$3.99 on Wed sales]
Home Hardware: $9.99

PVC 3/4" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $8.30
Home Depot: $10.25

Brass 1" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $14.35
Home Depot: $12.45
Sears: DNE
Home Hardware: $16.99

PVC 1" ball valve at local...
Lowes: $18.85
Home Depot: $20.60

Most other brass and metal parts are vastly more expensive [such as 1" copper pipe vs 1" PVC]. However, certain fittings tend to be similar in pricing.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but that HAD to be said. I would be willing to chart prices for a whole year at all four stores to prove my point about local area. If you've going to say something like brass being much more expensive, you'd better note that it's local. I've saved easily over $100 by using brass for larger valves.

CROC · 03-27-2007, 10:14 PM

Wow... I never realized how cheap check valves were in america until now.
Price at my plumbing store (Holmar Plumbing)
Brass spring loaded valve, 3/4" ~$22.50 before 14% taxes
PVC ball type check valve, 3/4" ~$22.50 before 14% taxes
Parts for a douchenator (recommended against by the staff there), ~$70

joannaardway · 03-28-2007, 08:11 AM

It's not too bad in price terms in the UK, because I can get 1/2" brass dual check valves for £5 after 17.5% VAT, good up to about 150 psi.

That's about $10 US ($11.50 CAD) at the current exchange rate.

isoaker_com · 03-28-2007, 02:10 PM

Dumb question on my part: how many check valves does the typical homemade water blaster end up needing to function properly? For the most basic design in my head (well, not including a syringe-type blaster), at least two check valves would be needed. Is this true or are you guys using other valves or tricks as well? With check valves costing ~$4-5 per valve, this means that the cheapest homemade would cost at least $8-$10 in valves alone?

Ben · 03-28-2007, 03:49 PM

Two check valves are required and another valve for the nozzle. I don't know of any tricks to reduce the number of check valves, but I would be interested in an alternative design if someone has an idea. The average price for a plastic 1/2 inch check valve is about $7 locally from what I have seen. Sometimes I order a few check valves online when I see them cheap. Their prices vary a lot obviously. I wish there was some bulk discount for check valves because I definitely would be interested in that.

The check valves are the single most expensive component of homemade water guns. That's why I suggested getting the smaller 1/2 inch ones because the prices in Pepper's water gun really turned me off. Because flow doesn't matter much, if even smaller check valves are available and are cheaper, I would suggest using them simply for the price advantage.

03-16-2007, 10:03 AM	#18
CROC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada (GTA) Posts: 291 UserID: 569	It's not really hijacking if you're asking for a link to it, but here it is: Design for a homemade valve __________________ ~CROC~(c 'rock)n. -The master of ideas, and the occasional mod (Works with mr. dude) Mods: 3xA combat - CPS Turbine - Super Flash Flood - (working on CPH)

03-26-2007, 07:33 PM	#20
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,293 UserID: 576	Maybe, or maybe it's just the perceived recoil. My riot blast kinda just poops out of the barrel - I don't see why it's used so much, and I don't see why 3/4" tubing is necessary. Just means more money and a tighter ball valve. The 3/8" nozzle should still have a good amount of recoil, and the thing is it'll last longer. With the riot blast, everything probably happens too suddenly to notice. __________________ Forum rules

03-26-2007, 09:03 PM	#22
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,293 UserID: 576	Interesting. Did he tell you how much the temperature increase was? The temperature would have had to increase a ton, at least inside the tubing. Temperature and pressure are only proportional from absolute zero, or -460 degrees Fahrenheit. __________________ Forum rules

03-26-2007, 09:22 PM	#24
CROC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada (GTA) Posts: 291 UserID: 569	No, he didn't say what temperature increase, but warned me that gas expands quickly in an enclosed area that is darker in colour, which attracts the heat more than the lighter colours, therefore increasing the pressure, which, I was warned would explode in shards if it gets above the 120psi limit. __________________ ~CROC~(c 'rock)n. -The master of ideas, and the occasional mod (Works with mr. dude) Mods: 3xA combat - CPS Turbine - Super Flash Flood - (working on CPH)

03-27-2007, 10:14 PM	#27
CROC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada (GTA) Posts: 291 UserID: 569	Wow... I never realized how cheap check valves were in america until now. Price at my plumbing store (Holmar Plumbing) Brass spring loaded valve, 3/4" ~$22.50 before 14% taxes PVC ball type check valve, 3/4" ~$22.50 before 14% taxes Parts for a douchenator (recommended against by the staff there), ~$70 __________________ ~CROC~(c 'rock)n. -The master of ideas, and the occasional mod (Works with mr. dude) Mods: 3xA combat - CPS Turbine - Super Flash Flood - (working on CPH)

03-10-2007, 01:28 PM	#16
mr. dude Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 127 UserID: 572	Update: I have parts of the PC's now. 1'x3" PVC, 1 3" endcap (all they had), and reducers to 3/4", all pressure-rated at 140psi. Now I need a second endcap, 2 3/4" threaded tees, and 3 3/4" threaded male joints, as well as a spring-loaded check valve. I have a reservoir, and will glue it to an endcap (with a hole drilled in it obviousy), which will go on the intake check valve. I also built the pump, but it broke, so I'll have to make a new one and reinforce it.

03-26-2007, 06:49 PM	#19
mr. dude Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 127 UserID: 572	The main soaker is complete, now I just need a reservoir. The swing valves work surprisingly well. My question: is it normal for the 3/8" nozzle to have more of a kick than the 3/4" riot blast?

03-28-2007, 08:11 AM	#28
joannaardway Do not adjust your TV set Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW Hertfordshire, England Posts: 875 UserID: 549	It's not too bad in price terms in the UK, because I can get 1/2" brass dual check valves for £5 after 17.5% VAT, good up to about 150 psi. That's about $10 US ($11.50 CAD) at the current exchange rate. __________________ "Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore "So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

03-28-2007, 02:10 PM	#29
isoaker_com Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere Posts: 279 UserID: 301	Dumb question on my part: how many check valves does the typical homemade water blaster end up needing to function properly? For the most basic design in my head (well, not including a syringe-type blaster), at least two check valves would be needed. Is this true or are you guys using other valves or tricks as well? With check valves costing ~$4-5 per valve, this means that the cheapest homemade would cost at least $8-$10 in valves alone? __________________ :: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

03-28-2007, 03:49 PM	#30
Ben Founder Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 6,054 UserID: 1	Two check valves are required and another valve for the nozzle. I don't know of any tricks to reduce the number of check valves, but I would be interested in an alternative design if someone has an idea. The average price for a plastic 1/2 inch check valve is about $7 locally from what I have seen. Sometimes I order a few check valves online when I see them cheap. Their prices vary a lot obviously. I wish there was some bulk discount for check valves because I definitely would be interested in that. The check valves are the single most expensive component of homemade water guns. That's why I suggested getting the smaller 1/2 inch ones because the prices in Pepper's water gun really turned me off. Because flow doesn't matter much, if even smaller check valves are available and are cheaper, I would suggest using them simply for the price advantage. __________________ email: / Forum rules / Read this page before emailing me. Do not send me a PM or email with a water gun question if someone else could answer the question. Post at the forums. You will get a response from me along with others' views or ideas.

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