What is the best Homemade for me?

[Lucius Octavion]

Hallo again. I'm really excited about making my own homemade and I might need some assistance. I want to make a water gun that is very practical in actual water fights, but still has power that can maybe have the edge on most stock soakers. First I need to learn about basic physics and check valves (etc) and how the water guns work. Then if I want a CPS or a Air Pressure, I need some help to get started then I will be on my own. Thank you all, and I hope I can learn a lot from this topic.

[joannaardway]

The answer to this question always is: The one that you yourself make.

Homemades can have the edge over a modded soaker, so no issue about outclassing a stock model.

Practicality is a very debated point. It really depends on your view of practical. I'm not even sure that "practicality" exists with soakers.

It's either good for you, or it isn't (like if you can't actually fit your hand into the grip guard).

CPS or air-pressure - it's up to you. I suggest the possibilty of a PCgH build if you elect for air-pressure - all the goodness of an APH build, but with loads more power, and less drop-off.

[Lucius Octavion]

How exactly is a pcgh different than a regular air pressure. How do you construct it?

[joannaardway]

It's got a "piston" inside the chamber(s).

You pump extra air behind this piston for extra power and less drop-off.

I suggest you check out silentguy's thread on the matter - I haven't got time to track down a link right now - but it should be in the "homemade" section.

[Lucius Octavion]

Is there any way to lubricate the ball valve in say an air pressure homemade? I tried a few and the valves seem like they're rock solid! Then I couldn't imagine how tough it is under pressure!

[Silence]

Metal ball valves can seem easier to turn than PVC ones, but if you add a torque arm to PVC ones, the leverage makes it as easy to turn. Look around for whichever one is the easiest to turn; but that doesn't matter if you lubricate it or even loosen the screw on metal ball valves. To lubricate them, close the valve and spread Vaseline/silicon lubricant grease/another lubricant over the ball from both sides. Then, open and close the valve a bit to spread it around, and you could even try it on the edges wheh the valve is open.

That said, I'm still looking for a guide on adding a PVC torque arm--it shouldn't be too hard, but it's another article possibility.

EDIT: I never saw this thread earlier...probably because I visited SSC, then left, and when I came back, everything was marked as read again.

Power isn't an issue with homemades at all, and I'm not getting into another practicality argument (there was a big battle about it only a few days ago). If you don't know how everything works, then check out the APH article. NOTE TO ALL: the SSC articles should be your primary source of knowledge, far above the forums on your priorities list. You should really only come to the forums with specific questions.

APHs are perfectly suitable, especially for first soakers. Super Soaker's air pressure soakers really did not manifest the power of air pressure, preferring instead to rely on thick rubber bladders for the powerful soakers. If you remember to pump often and keep up the pressure of an APH, then you'll have more power, greater output (also because of a wider ID), and greater range than a CPH can provide.

Full-fledged PCgHs haven't actually been done before--I was temporarily turned off by the slight complexity of obtaining and securing an O-ring for the plunger inside the PC. The PCgH thread contains just about all the documentation we have about PCgHs; so if you have further questions, use the search function to find threads like this and for PCgH questions, post in that thread. joannaardway's recent SPCgH thread also provides some information about semi-PCgHs.

[Drenchenator]

PVC ball valves are fine, I don't really see the problems that people encounter with them. Opening the valve while the gun is pressurized doesn't really make a difference because the movable parts in the valve are not affected by the force in that direction. If anything, the force of friction of the ball against the water would be the problem, but liquids do not create a lot of friction. A regular pull valve would be harder to pull when the gun is pressurized because the force pushs the seal against the hole.

The metal ball valve versus PVC ball valve debate comes up a lot, and frankly, both perform the same. If anything, metal valves open more easily only because they have a longer torque arm.

You can create a torque arm for a PVC valve by buying some PVC and drilling holes through the ball valve handle and through a piece of PVC. You then just put some bolts through the holes and tighten them for a good fit. The torque arm lowers the amount of force needed to apply torque (rotational force) to the valve, which would open it.

[joannaardway]

Well, metal ball valves are also much tougher - they feel less like they'll go AWOL on you.

I would go metal only because metal ball valves can't be messed up as easily by stray PVC cement.

And as an observation, this is my 700th post.

[DX]

I've changed some of the reasons why I still prefer metal, mainly due to the torque arm with PVC valves. Opening fast doesn't matter anymore, it is now the cheapness of metal valves in local stores [nearly half the price of PVC valves of the same size in larger stores] and the advantages of having threads. You simply can't mess it up if all you have to do is screw in two adaptors! Plus, if you seriously mess up somewhere else, you can salvage the ball valve no problem. Such as when a water balloon launcher snaps from being dropped. With a PVC valve, if you can't get the welded pvc out from both sides, that valve is gone.

APHs are perfectly suitable, especially for first soakers. Super Soaker's air pressure soakers really did not manifest the power of air pressure, preferring instead to rely on thick rubber bladders for the powerful soakers. If you remember to pump often and keep up the pressure of an APH, then you'll have more power, greater output (also because of a wider ID), and greater range than a CPH can provide.

Wow, that's a total reversal of opinion. You said once that "there's no reason ever to make an APH again" or something extremely similiar while posting about CPH guns...

Is there any way to lubricate the ball valve in say an air pressure homemade? I tried a few and the valves seem like they're rock solid! Then I couldn't imagine how tough it is under pressure!

Before having to resort to lubricant/grease, head off the problem in the store. Look for valves which have already been tried out by past customers, as they are often very loose.

[Lucius Octavion]

I doubt that anyone has ever made a working trigger mechanism, but has anyone ever made an actual trigger?

[Silence]

I dunno--I just find it comforting to be able to use a valve that works easily right off the bat, has the tightening nut right there, and the fact that the handle is already strongly secured. Also, if you use spigot plugs like I do instead of threaded endcaps, there's one less stretch of PVC to cut--though it isn't that big a deal. That said, given the intense pressure from Ben and Drenchenator to use PVC valves, my next homemade may well use a PVC ball valve with a torque arm.

Originally Posted by Duxburian

Wow, that's a total reversal of opinion. You said once that "there's no reason ever to make an APH again" or something extremely similiar while posting about CPH guns...

I applaud you for your observation --and while I believe I had been referring to PCgHs instead of CPHs, the idea is similar ("opposed to simple APHs") and one that I had forgotten about. I, for one, have chosen not to try a PCgH for a number of technical reasons dealing with the fact that some of the mechanism hasn't been used before; for example, larger O-rings and more overall complexity and price, etc. I'll be happy to get any homemade working at first, especially because I've since decided that APHs are good enough, and because I don't want to mess up the pump or something else on an expensive soaker.

@ Lucius Octavion: I'm sorry, but I don't really understand your question...

[Drenchenator]

I doubt that anyone has ever made a working trigger mechanism, but has anyone ever made an actual trigger?

Actually, I have made a completely working trigger mechanism and trigger in my Nerf homemade which also doubles as a water balloon launcher. Though the gun was designed to shoot solid objects, the valve could be used for shooting water. I have been designing new homemade pull valves that use rubberized sheeting instead of O-rings like this one. I am actually surprised that no one has brought up the idea of homemade valves, but then again, people rarely do at the Nerf forums too.

The trigger system was a simple system of bellcranks and music wire (a second picture is available here). Though the valve is a piston valve, it operates just like a pull valve. I probably wouldn't build another one of this type of valve though because it was so hard to build. Construction of it took seemingly forever, and it led me to design other valves that would be easier to build.

[Ben]

PVC ball valves are used by me because they are:

- generally are cheaper than metal in most areas
- for our purposes are just as tough as metal (are you using over 300 PSI?)
- can come in both threaded and non-threaded versions if you look at the box right next to the non-threaded (http://www.sscentral.org/images/dscn0190.jpg)

From what I know, the darker plastic inside of the valve is resistant or immune to the effects of PVC cement. I've actually tried to cement things on the ball of an extra valve I've had. It wasn't happening. Either way, you should keep the ball valves open during cementing to let the inside of the PVC aerate.

[Silence]

Also, note the July posts (they don't provide post numbers) in the SM thread, "some ideas." The ideas aren't that bad (very similar to Drenchenator's), but as I pointed out, none of them provide very linear flow. It's fine for Nerf homemades, but not the best for homemade soakers. Of course, I am seriously considering using such an idea...