Super Soaker Central forums

joannaardway · 04-17-2006, 03:42 PM

Does anyone have any thoughts on the bore reduction?

I know that the hit will be sufficent for 1HK (and it's not really a weapon for soakfests) - the muzzle velocity and range will be similar, but the balloon will be less likely to injure anyone on impact.

If everything works out correctly with this & the two valve design, the high pressure could be reduced to 100 psi, and the low pressure to 50-70 psi increasing safety for the user.

Assuming an effecient setup, I could get 4 shots per high pressure tank.

Also price would be reduced by £5-£8 ($10-$15).

The circuitry for Cerberus seems to be getting more complicated very quickly.

To achieve the full functionality I had hoped for, I would need a microprocessor onboard Cerberus - I'm currently looking into this area.

Again, this will affect cost, but I think you may have guessed that cost isn't my first concern.

This setup could handle all the safety mechanisms incredibly easily, and microsecond timings. It would also be infinitely easier to reconfigure if I make changes to Cerberus.

Silence · 04-17-2006, 09:28 PM

Just to let everybody know (I don't know why), I'm not really into water balloon launchers--they're too complex (a microprocessor? Seriously...) and impractical (aiming at any distance farther than throwing range is hard, and throwing is much easier). As far as I'm concerned, that pretty much sums it up.

DX · 04-17-2006, 10:06 PM

Well that above design is the most complex/costly attempted so far to date, so I could see where you're coming from. First impressions make a world of a difference. Take the Douchenator for example, a $30 build-in-5-minutes, 7 part, practical, and mobile launcher that is effective in the first 300 ft of its ~500 ft range. A dollar store pistol is more complex than one of these.

Kind of the same with homemades. You can read about some crazy co2 powered beast that costs $200 and weighs umpteen pounds. Then I could tell you about designs in the $20-40 ballpark with amazing power for their rather small sizes and with stock soaker-like battle practicality.

Silence · 04-17-2006, 11:05 PM

Duxburian, if you were talking to me (which I think you were), I have no doubt that the Douchenator is a great WBL. I have no doubt that it is simple. I have no doubt that it is cost-effective. And, finally, I have no doubt that some people can wield it with great proficiency and make their opponents tremble.

However, I fail to see how anything as, well, clumsy as a WBL can be used to great advantage. Maybe I should read a guide concerning WBL use

.

joannaardway · 04-18-2006, 11:28 AM

I assure you - a processor is actually the best way to go given the required number of tasks.

The system will need to monitor, time, track and run multiple things, and the processor will actually be cheaper than other circuitry. It will also be easier to reconfigure if changes are made to the design.

I think Cereberus is on the edges of being legal, but I'm not quite sure.

Silence · 04-18-2006, 06:28 PM

I'll only believe the practicality of a processor in a WBL--or, as I have stated, the practicality of any WBL--when I see it. But don't get me wrong--I would be extremely interested in seeing Cerberus in action, though I doubt I will ever build it or anything like it.

Things must be very different in England if an air pressure WBL is only bordering on legal. I mean, here, you can build some crazy contraption that uses gunpowder or something, and it will be completely legal--but, of course, I have done that

.

m15399 · 04-18-2006, 06:57 PM

Just make sure it's waterproof. Honestly, I think using electronics in WBL's is... uh... not good. If you modify the valve, that would be better. Even better, build your own valve(s).

Silence · 04-18-2006, 07:18 PM

I agree with m15399 in that you're better off without the electronics (or maybe I'm just scared of the possibility of having to face Cerberi someday

...). Yes, I know that solenoids and some commercial water guns use electronics, but any accidental carelessness could leave your water balloon launcher and yourself a wreck

.

I must have overlooked this important point in my anti-WBL rant

...so thanks, m15399.

DX · 04-18-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

I agree with m15399 in that you're better off without the electronics (or maybe I'm just scared of the possibility of having to face Cerberus someday

...

I'm not.

What you do to counter is spread your forces out and then start a sprinting charge, intiating a severe offensive to give the operator no time to set up, and putting pressure on the water balloon launcher's defenders. With your forces attacking from different directions and moving quickly, it minimizes the impact of the artillery fire, and in close range, a sensible artilleryman will not fire, or if the rules prevent firing it at close ranges. The key is the intensiveness of your offensive. You need to hammer the other team again and again and again up close until they are forced to give up their position and run. Once Cerberus is being borne to the rear, you need to keep up the pressure. Sprint after the enemy, and attack again. Keep it hot, and the launcher will not be usable at all!

Although, when the team has to refill, I would suggest finding a thick tree to hide behind and returning fire with artillery of your own.

Silence · 04-18-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentGuy

(or maybe I'm just scared of the possibility of having to face Cerberi someday

...)

I was just joking

.

Thanks for the lesson in attacking artillery, but as far as I'm concerned, it just highlights the impracticality and ineffectiveness of WBLs. Anybody with any common sense can defeat a WBL wielder.

How heavy are WBLs? They appear to be a little clumsy.

DX · 04-18-2006, 09:10 PM

I was just having fun with tactics.

A well defended launcher will remain usable. There is a counter for everything, and there is a counter for every counter!

Weight depends on the launcher, some are surprisingly managable and mobile.

joannaardway · 04-19-2006, 05:59 PM

Cerberus is going to be quite heavy, and might have up to 700 ft effective range because of it's sniper design.

The electronics monitor tank pressures and other such stuff, meaning that valves are correctly timed to maximise shots per tank - this will all be sealed within a water tight container.

A rush attack would be less effective against Cerberus - the rapid fire would mean that more targets could be hit during the charge.

Cerberus is a rapid fire weapon - most water balloon launchers would strain to reach 3 rpm - I could in theory hit quite a few targets before they reached me (particularlly given the effective range)

A problem arises from Cerberus's design: At 10 - 12 rpm, temperature management systems and heating coils are needed to prevent the chambers cracking - more for the processor to manage.

I could in theory fit a revolver like fitting which would allow 60 - 90 rpm - this would be risky at best.

Cerberus is going to be quite heavy - maybe as much as a fully loaded CPS 3200 - and at 150 cm long - it's not going to be a very mobile weapon.

Other homemade projects:
-Hellhound: Imagine a small Cerberus and you're half way there. Hellhound is going to be a mobile weapon.

There will be two main pressure chambers. One is twice the size of the other. The large chamber is seperated by a ball valve.

After the small chamber is fired, it is topped up again from the larger chamber - after 5 shots are made, the 6th and last shot is fired from the large chamber.

Total length: approx 75 cm

- Douchenator clone

Enough said about that one.

I really like the concept of water balloon launchers so they are going to make up a large portion of my homemades (as an aside, the army cadet detachment I go to is aligned to the Royal Artillery regiment)

m15399 · 04-19-2006, 07:21 PM

Twice as big? 6 shots? No way. You MIGHT be able to pull off 2 good ones and a short range one, but no way are you getting anything more. Think 5-8 times as big for 6 good ones (even with the last one being from both tanks).

Silence · 04-19-2006, 10:57 PM

I'm telling you, WBLs are ineffective and clumsy, and Cerberus may be especially so. But I'll shut up now.

joannaardway, I think that you should either rename this thread to include the name "Cerberus" or move the Cerberus-related posts (practically all the posts are Cerberus- or WBL-related) to a new thread.

wetmonkey442 · 04-22-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joannaardway

A problem arises from Cerberus's desing: At 10 - 12 rpm, temperature management systems and heating coils are needed to prevent the chambers cracking - more for the processor to manage.

Wow, wait a second, when did you start using co2? Why would heating coils be needed, unless you're using this thing in the winter (and even then, UK winters aren't that bad). Expanding co2 will lower the surrounding temperatures, and would probably cause PVC to crack after a while. However, if you're using air like I thought you were, you shouldn't have a problem with your PVC cracking. I'm sorry, but every time I read this thread, Cerberus is getting more and more complicated. Keeping it more simple is your best way to create a launcher that works effectively.

04-17-2006, 03:42 PM	#31
joannaardway Do not adjust your TV set Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW Hertfordshire, England Posts: 875 UserID: 549	Does anyone have any thoughts on the bore reduction? I know that the hit will be sufficent for 1HK (and it's not really a weapon for soakfests) - the muzzle velocity and range will be similar, but the balloon will be less likely to injure anyone on impact. If everything works out correctly with this & the two valve design, the high pressure could be reduced to 100 psi, and the low pressure to 50-70 psi increasing safety for the user. Assuming an effecient setup, I could get 4 shots per high pressure tank. Also price would be reduced by £5-£8 ($10-$15). The circuitry for Cerberus seems to be getting more complicated very quickly. To achieve the full functionality I had hoped for, I would need a microprocessor onboard Cerberus - I'm currently looking into this area. Again, this will affect cost, but I think you may have guessed that cost isn't my first concern. This setup could handle all the safety mechanisms incredibly easily, and microsecond timings. It would also be infinitely easier to reconfigure if I make changes to Cerberus. __________________ "Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore "So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

04-17-2006, 09:28 PM	#32
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,285 UserID: 576	Just to let everybody know (I don't know why), I'm not really into water balloon launchers--they're too complex (a microprocessor? Seriously...) and impractical (aiming at any distance farther than throwing range is hard, and throwing is much easier). As far as I'm concerned, that pretty much sums it up. __________________ Forum rules Last edited by Silence : 04-17-2006 at 09:29 PM. Reason: changed the icon

04-17-2006, 10:06 PM	#33
DX Wicked Super Admin Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Easton / New London, CT Posts: 1,576 UserID: 75	Well that above design is the most complex/costly attempted so far to date, so I could see where you're coming from. First impressions make a world of a difference. Take the Douchenator for example, a $30 build-in-5-minutes, 7 part, practical, and mobile launcher that is effective in the first 300 ft of its ~500 ft range. A dollar store pistol is more complex than one of these. Kind of the same with homemades. You can read about some crazy co2 powered beast that costs $200 and weighs umpteen pounds. Then I could tell you about designs in the $20-40 ballpark with amazing power for their rather small sizes and with stock soaker-like battle practicality. __________________ Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!! 2004 Red Sox - World Series Champions 2007 RED SOX - WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS! 2003 Patriots - Super Bowl Champions 2004 Patriots - Super Bowl Champions 2007 Patriots - God Damnit!

04-17-2006, 11:05 PM	#34
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,285 UserID: 576	Duxburian, if you were talking to me (which I think you were), I have no doubt that the Douchenator is a great WBL. I have no doubt that it is simple. I have no doubt that it is cost-effective. And, finally, I have no doubt that some people can wield it with great proficiency and make their opponents tremble. However, I fail to see how anything as, well, clumsy as a WBL can be used to great advantage. Maybe I should read a guide concerning WBL use . __________________ Forum rules

04-18-2006, 11:28 AM	#35
joannaardway Do not adjust your TV set Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW Hertfordshire, England Posts: 875 UserID: 549	I assure you - a processor is actually the best way to go given the required number of tasks. The system will need to monitor, time, track and run multiple things, and the processor will actually be cheaper than other circuitry. It will also be easier to reconfigure if changes are made to the design. I think Cereberus is on the edges of being legal, but I'm not quite sure. __________________ "Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore "So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

04-18-2006, 06:28 PM	#36
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,285 UserID: 576	I'll only believe the practicality of a processor in a WBL--or, as I have stated, the practicality of any WBL--when I see it. But don't get me wrong--I would be extremely interested in seeing Cerberus in action, though I doubt I will ever build it or anything like it. Things must be very different in England if an air pressure WBL is only bordering on legal. I mean, here, you can build some crazy contraption that uses gunpowder or something, and it will be completely legal--but, of course, I have done that . __________________ Forum rules

04-18-2006, 06:57 PM	#37
m15399 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 224 UserID: 495	Just make sure it's waterproof. Honestly, I think using electronics in WBL's is... uh... not good. If you modify the valve, that would be better. Even better, build your own valve(s).

04-18-2006, 07:18 PM	#38
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,285 UserID: 576	I agree with m15399 in that you're better off without the electronics (or maybe I'm just scared of the possibility of having to face Cerberi someday ...). Yes, I know that solenoids and some commercial water guns use electronics, but any accidental carelessness could leave your water balloon launcher and yourself a wreck . I must have overlooked this important point in my anti-WBL rant ...so thanks, m15399. __________________ Forum rules

04-18-2006, 09:10 PM	#41
DX Wicked Super Admin Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Easton / New London, CT Posts: 1,576 UserID: 75	I was just having fun with tactics. A well defended launcher will remain usable. There is a counter for everything, and there is a counter for every counter! Weight depends on the launcher, some are surprisingly managable and mobile. __________________ Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!! 2004 Red Sox - World Series Champions 2007 RED SOX - WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS! 2003 Patriots - Super Bowl Champions 2004 Patriots - Super Bowl Champions 2007 Patriots - God Damnit!

04-19-2006, 05:59 PM	#42
joannaardway Do not adjust your TV set Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW Hertfordshire, England Posts: 875 UserID: 549	Cerberus is going to be quite heavy, and might have up to 700 ft effective range because of it's sniper design. The electronics monitor tank pressures and other such stuff, meaning that valves are correctly timed to maximise shots per tank - this will all be sealed within a water tight container. A rush attack would be less effective against Cerberus - the rapid fire would mean that more targets could be hit during the charge. Cerberus is a rapid fire weapon - most water balloon launchers would strain to reach 3 rpm - I could in theory hit quite a few targets before they reached me (particularlly given the effective range) A problem arises from Cerberus's design: At 10 - 12 rpm, temperature management systems and heating coils are needed to prevent the chambers cracking - more for the processor to manage. I could in theory fit a revolver like fitting which would allow 60 - 90 rpm - this would be risky at best. Cerberus is going to be quite heavy - maybe as much as a fully loaded CPS 3200 - and at 150 cm long - it's not going to be a very mobile weapon. Other homemade projects: -Hellhound: Imagine a small Cerberus and you're half way there. Hellhound is going to be a mobile weapon. There will be two main pressure chambers. One is twice the size of the other. The large chamber is seperated by a ball valve. After the small chamber is fired, it is topped up again from the larger chamber - after 5 shots are made, the 6th and last shot is fired from the large chamber. Total length: approx 75 cm - Douchenator clone Enough said about that one. I really like the concept of water balloon launchers so they are going to make up a large portion of my homemades (as an aside, the army cadet detachment I go to is aligned to the Royal Artillery regiment) __________________ "Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore "So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston Last edited by joannaardway : 04-23-2006 at 09:19 AM.

04-19-2006, 07:21 PM	#43
m15399 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 224 UserID: 495	Twice as big? 6 shots? No way. You MIGHT be able to pull off 2 good ones and a short range one, but no way are you getting anything more. Think 5-8 times as big for 6 good ones (even with the last one being from both tanks).

04-19-2006, 10:57 PM	#44
Silence Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,285 UserID: 576	I'm telling you, WBLs are ineffective and clumsy, and Cerberus may be especially so. But I'll shut up now. joannaardway, I think that you should either rename this thread to include the name "Cerberus" or move the Cerberus-related posts (practically all the posts are Cerberus- or WBL-related) to a new thread. __________________ Forum rules

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