New school soakers not so bad after all

General water gun discussion.
NovaBlast
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New school soakers not so bad after all

Post by NovaBlast » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:33 pm

Now I have been researching soakers for a long time. Of course you have your CPS-2000 and your Monster XL's of the world. I think an underestimated, yet extremely formidable weapon now is the Max Infusion Hydroblitz. It is well balanced. It has good size,a concussive blast option, and good water supply. Attach a modified backback to the max infusion supply and ill put it up against anything. Let me know what you all think.
Last edited by NovaBlast on Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spelling errors

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:09 pm

Most of us have heard plenty and seen enough stream action of the HB, and for most who have used it, we can all fairly agree that it is still poorly designed and overly gimmicked. The power is very weak for it's size, and the range is still nothing special. Most people dislike it's weight and balance, and the pump is awkward to use. The water supply is ok.

However, I'm not going to go heavy on this until I've used a HB myself, this is all just from what people say about it, what I've observed by looking at the gun, as well as stream shot video's I've seen.

NovaBlast
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Post by NovaBlast » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:19 pm

I didnt say put your other weapons down. every arsenal needs long and short ranged weapons. As you probably know, the fight is about who outlasts their opponent, with a larger backpack attached to it trust me the HB can do a good job coupled with a wide variety of attack formations.

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:00 pm

"The Fight" can be anything depending on the game mode. But anyways, since you're talking about the soakfest, the HB may work better as a close range weapon, but the automatic bursts as well as their delay are harder to time and aim than regular shots, and as for how long it lasts, anyone tap shooting and conserving ammo can probably last at least as long. With the HB, you have to get close (perhaps about 20ft or so) to soak effectively, while CPS's soak well with a concentrated stream about 30-40ft away. None of the backpacks Hasbro offers are of any significant size anyway (2.9L is just pathetic), they just work alright because their guns aren't powerful enough to gulp the water faster.

For short range weapons/secondary weapons, I would simply prefer a Flash Flood. Output is similar, and while it's capacity is less, it's only a secondary, and the capacity isn't too bad for the size. The blast is one shot, but is much more potent than the one on the HB. It's superior handling makes it faster to use and less clumsy as well.

Dispite these disadvantages of the HB, I'd still like to try one myself anyway. Still, there's better stuff out there, and the HB has a poor size to power ratio. (like the MXL, except that one's still much better)

NovaBlast
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Post by NovaBlast » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:48 pm

Everyone has there own choice. In terms of raw power nothing can top a Cps2000(maybe a modified one). I just like the HB feel. I love the FF's as well. I was once in battle and 2 of em brought me the win in a soakfight . The old school guns are phenomenal, just want everyone to know you can still win with the new stuff. I have a nice mix of both. (2 FF's, Cps 2000, HB, MXL, an arctic blast, 2 modified water packs, 3 max infusion packs, A modified water cannon(balloon), 2 tarantulas (reinforced with electrical tape), various back-up pistols. Not to bad, but i can do better.

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:56 pm

Well I was just saying, compared to other guns out there (old or new), the HB seems rather battle impractical. Anyone with a FF, AB, Orca, Tiger Shark, Blazer, etc. is still around even ground with the HB. The HB's PC is probably actually quite powerful, but all the odd design stuff it has to get around limit it's capability. Still, if you find it useful, I'm not saying anything against that, I'm just saying why it isn't really anything too special out of the more recent guns.

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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:06 am

As you probably know, the fight is about who outlasts their opponent, with a larger backpack attached to it trust me the HB can do a good job coupled with a wide variety of attack formations.
There are 108 different combinations of battlefield type, size and progression levels. Factor in game families and the amount of possible combinations rises to 432. Factor in game types, battlefield variation [a city and a forest may both have "dense cover" but both are very different, and many cities and forests are different from each other], local variation [hills?, streams?, houses?, roads?], local rules [power caps?, pistol rounds?, OB lines?], filling access [hoses?, buildings?, fountains?, no man-made objects at all?], etc. and you get a potentially infinite number.

You are describing one set of fighting conditions, a form of organized soakfest [or free for all, I can't tell specifically] that requires great capacity and conservation of water with lenient battle practicality limits. No two people have the same fighting conditions, unless they are fighting with/against each other in the same war. Even then, no two people have the same fighting style, or are able to use the same style in the same way.

You don't always need better capacity, sometimes too much water is a bad thing, in fact, you don't even need to have a gun in order to defeat an enemy. Water wars are not just gun vs gun or user with gun vs user with gun. There's much more at work behind the scenes. There are concepts, experimental ideas, natural laws, limits, and other factors that mean the difference between victory and defeat, regardless of user skill and strength of the gun. Many are present even in the most simple of fights.

In general for soakfests though, a high range - high output combination beats just high output. A CPS 2000 is usually a more effective soakfest weapon than a Hydroblitz, as the latter can't soak what it can't hit. You could say, why not step or run forward to get in range? Well, you can't always do that. You could rush a tap-pumping 2000 user, get soaked, have the 2000 user sprint away, turn, and continue to tap-pump, dishing out damage gradully at superior ranges, while you have not hit them once.
Attach a modified backback to the max infusion supply and ill put it up against anything.
I'd fight a Hydroblitz with nothing [in a team-based fight of course], just to demonstrate the power of ideas against the physical.
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

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Drenchenator
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Post by Drenchenator » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:42 am

You are describing one set of fighting conditions
Well put. Each soaker has its advantages and disadvantages; some are good in some circumstances, others not. It all depends on the game type. I typically play free-for-alls, so I too appreciate high capacity. However, on a canoe trip that I went on I was not worried about capacity with a river inches below me. My Liquidator did well even though it is "new school." It's all relative.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

NovaBlast
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Post by NovaBlast » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:58 am

Great posts guys. lots of info as well. Some very valid points. I normally play Free for all, so my posts had much to do with those types of fights. I feel like I could adapt to many circumstances as well. I usually plan out a defense and attack strategy for my team here in Ohio. One question. I have used shields attached to my arm in battle before, is this considered fair to you all, or does it depend on the circumstances?

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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:21 am

Shields really depend on player preference. Locally, we see shields as not necessarily cheap, but instead cowardly, and therefore ban them. We know a couple of tactics that would be brutally effective in taking out shield users, but it's the very idea of hiding behind one that isn't liked. Our local rules do allow a gun or a backpack to be used as a shield, however. Even I sometimes use my gun to block shots, but only at the exact moment of the block. That way, I can be rushing forward, block a shot, and continue rushing at the same speed, as if nothing happened.

Then again, if I were fighting a new team or were at a tournament, I wouldn't complain if others wanted to use shields. I wouldn't consider it "unfair", the choice to use shields would lead to their defeat, not mine. :p
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

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Monsoon
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Post by Monsoon » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:21 am

Most people are still forgetting that most people don't play organized games in water warfare. The typical consumer of a water gun would be probably from ages 8 to 15, and have little knowledge of past years of better blasters, how a soaker works, and even data on the soaker they're buying. These people also most of the time have general soakfests, where anything goes, possible teams, and usually on a small scale (a few people in a backyard or something similar). I fit into most of these categories, with the exception that I have knowledge of soakers and how they work, etc and I'm 17. That being said, the hydroblitz and FF are excellent blasters to use in my opinion. Sure a CPS 2000 would be nice (more than nice actually :cool :) but I'm happy with my current loadout (I usually use a FF with the aquapack backpack) and it's more than enough to get me through a typical soakfest. I was looking at getting the hydroblitz later this summer as well because of its size and capacity.
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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:59 am

Why would it matter what "most people" do? That is still just one type of water warfare. If people are not made aware of their options, then those options might as well cease to exist, and we might as well all go back to the same game type and the same fighting style. One reason why I love this game/hobby/sport is because of all the variability, all of the possible options. That sets soaking apart from similar activities, and for me is a factor in why it is fun.
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

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isoaker_com
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Post by isoaker_com » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Do those who own and use the Hydro Blitz really find it easy and comfortable to use for long periods of time? Maybe there's something wrong with how I've been wielding mine, but its rather heavy for its top power and pumping using the lever pump is not as easy to do compared to a standard forward or barrel-mounted sliding pump. Combine that with the need to use the shoulder strap (no easy way to carry the soaker safely without it) and one's mobility and aiming is reduced. Sure, you can swap between nozzle settings and the shot time on the normal stream is great, but being able to pump and shoot which I can do with nearly any other soaker is not done easily with the Hydro Blitz. I suppose what confuses me the most is that the Hydro Blitz weighs more than double that of a CPS1500 (both have basically the same reservoir capacity), but doesn't have a solid 5x stream, nevermind a 10x stream. The PC in the Hydro Blitz appears to have the power to do so, but the design does not make use of it.

As for the other current soakers, I'm more of less pleased with their performances for their respective sizes and weights. I've even gotten slightly more fond of the Super Soaker Sneak Attack despite it being a piston-based soaker.

:cool:
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cobralex297
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also not satisfied

Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:02 pm

I own the Hydroblitz and am also not satisfied with it's performance. I'm not sure if a light/moderate drill on the main nozzle would help, bu certainly i'll take higher output over the unnecessarily high shot time... I mean, why bother with such high shot time if the amount of water coming out is so ... inconsequential.

I've owned a Hydroblitz since June, yet due to it's lacking performance, the number of times I've used it could probably be counted on one hand.
For the money, I could have bought a 1500 with change to spare, or maybe 2 1200s, which would've been a much better investment.
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Monsoon
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Post by Monsoon » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:49 am

I'm not trying to make this community sound like a bunch of weirdos (because we aren't, we are a group of dedicated and/or passionate people about water guns and water warfare :cool :) , I just like to be easy on the rating of water guns. Okay, the hydroblitz isn't a good gun I'll take your word for it, but I'm sure the sneak attack for instance is a decent gun as iSoaker said. But what I'm trying to get at is that I don't compare new soakers with the old CPS behemoths and powerful homemades. I rate them according to just simply their own year and couple past years as well, because that's whats most available and easy to obtain. Some people have to deal with tight budgets and limited access to eBay and hardware stores to get parts for a homemade, and are stuck with stock soakers. On that note, these people usually only face others with stock soakers as well, so rating current soakers as "crap" would seem odd to them considering that's all there is for them to buy. I'm not trying to endorse "crap" soakers, but I'm not putting them down either.
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