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Old 05-31-2011, 10:31 AM   #1
HighTide11
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Exclamation Water Wars getting bad image by press.

A few years ago a death and a serious assault got Caused after a war went nasty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10311890
Then on the 30th Of May 2011, 2 children were punished for running around pretending that their hands were guns. They were told it was 'hostile behaviour' and 'threatening '. This led to a huge debate whether all 'guns' should be banned as it may be to blame for an increase in Gun Crime in the UK. Thankfully, several Radio Broadcasters claimed it was not the cause. They also pointed out that kids will be kids. Several of them even owned a water pistol themselves.

Unfortunately, while investigating the press water fights have received I came across a rather
scary incident that was inflicted at a water war. The murder of a Teenager. This shook me. As a British citizen who likes a good war I was shocked and at one point considered giving it up altogether. I soon came to my senses. The root cause of these fatalities and injuries is one thing: FaceBook. All of these criminal acts and injuries were cause by these wars being advertised on Facebook.

If these incidents occur again, many may be pushed away from the sport. In some of these battles the Metropolitan Police issued a Section 60 order. This allowed them to search anyone there. This sport has low enough numbers already. A further decrease could result in the death of the sport. Please read and give suggestions.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

woa...sounds serious!

not good...
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

It's a strange thing as water warfare operates far differently than wargames considered to be more serious. Because no one takes water warfare seriously, they're less likely to behave appropriately, and couple that with thousands of participants in a completely unorganized event and that's when you have disasters. Vandalism is common, but I didn't suspect people would go crazy over mere droplets of water and kill each other for it.

These kinds of people cause problems in every wargame/hobby; airsoft, paintball, etc. and these types of incidents build paranoia and inspire an irrational fear of plastic toys into the public. I suppose the U.S. is lucky to not have to deal with as many of these incidents with regard to water warfare, and most assassins and HvZ games (which typically involve water or nerf blasters) seem to be at least somewhat maturely organized.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Going with what CA said about paintball and airsoft. The only way those games can be played is on a legally licensed and operated field. With restrictions on the equipment you can use and other safety factors in place.
You can't use those outside a legal play area without being charged with possession of a deadly weapon (of course that may differ depending on which state you're in).

and yes paintball/airsoft guns can be modified in such a way where they can cause serious injury or death. eg. you can freeze paintballs, or turn up the velocity of the airsoft gun, and the plastic bb's can break the skin.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Everything can be turned into something deadly. Nerf blasters can be made to shoot dangerous projectiles. Water blasters can obviously be made to shoot fire, and even laser tag equipment can be modified with high powered lasers which aren't deadly (yet) but are dangerous and can set things on fire and cause blindness.

The problem has absolutely nothing to do with Facebook, the Internet, water guns, or anything of that nature. All it has to do is with society; with the people who stupidly organize these wars and with the people who will throw a s*** fit over a bit of water. It is the idiot who points a replica toy gun at a police officer, or the goon who decides it's a good idea to get thousands of people together without supervision, organization, and security. It is the bored prankster who shoots water at the jerk whose temper is shorter than a shot from the Hydro Cannon, or the uneducated, over-protective parent who thinks anything that barely resembles a firearm (no matter how remotely) should be banned completely.

People love to blame things for their problems. They blame toy guns, real guns, video games, outdoor games, smartphones, Facebook/the Internet, piracy, political ideals, and everything else except for the real problem: people. It's quite sad really.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

I agree with you CA-99 on all those points. however it's easier to turn a paintball or airsoft gun into lethal weapons, than it seems for water guns or laser tag.

and on a side note, there was a news story last week about how violent video games (or video games in general) actually preventing crime. (contradictory to what they've always said now) because instead of being out committing the crimes, people are occupied with the amount of time it takes to play the games.
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Old 06-01-2011, 07:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A_99
People love to blame things for their problems. They blame toy guns, real guns, video games, outdoor games, smartphones, Facebook/the Internet, piracy, political ideals, and everything else except for the real problem: people. It's quite sad really.

I really have nothing to say but EXACTLY! You illustrated the real problem within today's society, the people trying to find something to blame but themselves.

On a slightly unrelated note, what about the fact that some people might be there specifically to cause trouble? They might be going to cause the kind of bad press or mayhem that is happening just because they have nothing better to do.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A_99
Everything can be turned into something deadly. Nerf blasters can be made to shoot dangerous projectiles. Water blasters can obviously be made to shoot fire, and even laser tag equipment can be modified with high powered lasers which aren't deadly (yet) but are dangerous and can set things on fire and cause blindness.

The problem has absolutely nothing to do with Facebook, the Internet, water guns, or anything of that nature. All it has to do is with society; with the people who stupidly organize these wars and with the people who will throw a s*** fit over a bit of water. It is the idiot who points a replica toy gun at a police officer, or the goon who decides it's a good idea to get thousands of people together without supervision, organization, and security. It is the bored prankster who shoots water at the jerk whose temper is shorter than a shot from the Hydro Cannon, or the uneducated, over-protective parent who thinks anything that barely resembles a firearm (no matter how remotely) should be banned completely.

People love to blame things for their problems. They blame toy guns, real guns, video games, outdoor games, smartphones, Facebook/the Internet, piracy, political ideals, and everything else except for the real problem: people. It's quite sad really.
I agree. When there is nobody to blame, we blame the "thing".
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

"I agree with you CA-99 on all those points. however it's easier to turn a paintball or airsoft gun into lethal weapons, than it seems for water guns or laser tag."

(I'd make that a proper quote but my internet is barely functioning at the moment. I'll come change it if I can remember.)

I would say that, really, squirt guns are the easiest to make deadly. There's a certain thing we can do with them that may not be mentioned here that can immediately turn them into a potentially deadly weapon.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

I just said all that a post earlier, haha. What I didn't emphasize was how easy it is to convert a water blaster into a short range weapon, and it's far easier to do than turning other sorts of things into weapons.

Not sure on the U.K., but the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was written to apply to everything from handguns to heavy naval artillery. Obviously, the landscape of weaponry is extraordinarily different today, but what I'm saying is that if someone wants to commit a crime (particularly in a crowded area), they will find a way to do so. Outlaw all automatic weapons and the perpetrator will bump fire. (If practical.) Outlaw all guns and the perpetrator will look up recipes for certain items. Outlaw that and you have something APH or +bow derived. Eventually you'll have to outlaw kitchen knives and pencils after outlawing water and Nerf blasters. That, and the fact is that the vast majority of firearms are used for legitimate purposes; if you're chased by a crazed gang or by moose, or even down at the range for recreational purposes, would you rather have a Musket or a military-issued M4? One can argue that the firearm obsession of some in the U.S. is just downright stupid, and there are numerous cases of this (i.e. there was a case of a family who owned more firearms than most of us have water guns, and some members of the family had... mental issues and you can guess what happened next), but in the end, those are still cases of blatant stupidity and blaming the guns in such cases is really not that much different than blaming the gun racks, or for that matter, the toys the family members may have played with when young. My point is, the thinking that leads to banning video games and toys shares similarities to the kind of thinking that leads to banning as many kinds of firearms as possible and that's why I brought up this potentially divisive topic.

But back to everything else, what does this mean for water warfare? Perhaps it means that controlled events are really the only way to go, and such events should only take place with participating members and should only happen on approved private or public property. If the same brawl happened in the U.S., you bet that the same crazy "controversy" would come up. There are people everywhere who will jump at a moment's notice to take away a metric ton of freedom for an ounce of shallow, superficially perceived security, and as free, free-thinking citizens, we all must do what we can to prevent such encroachments on these freedoms. The future of water warfare as well as the future of societies depends on this. We have to take responsibility to constructively organized water warfare as well as promote others to do the same, but in the end when someone else does something out of our control, we have to speak out when the hicks come to denounce the imaginary violence that water guns are responsible for, as well as condemn the actions of those who smear the hobby by having thousands of crazed, uncontrolled mob-kids vandalize parks and public places. No doubt, much of the problem is far out of our control (including the fact that there are many people out there who wouldn't care, understand, or listen, who just want to ban everything), but it's good to take the little influence one can get.

What do others think? =p It's definitely a political discussion, but it has direct and indirect consequences for water warfare everywhere and is worth discussing. Perhaps we should make a special forum for this sort of thing if enough people are interested.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

I agree wholeheartedly. As was once said, blaming a gun for a murder is like blaming your pencil for a misspelled word.

I, myself, am guilty of improvised weaponry and yes, my Nerf gun will leave welts. Should I feel like making it do more damage, it would not be hard.

A citizen who will trade freedom for security does not deserve freedom.


Edit: Sooner or later, they're going to find a reason to ban squirtguns, and when they do... Well, only the criminals will have... squirt... guns... ? Stories like this are a big reason why I love living where I am. Doesn't matter if your water war bleeds into the streets, it's a dinky town and we have the good sense to clear out when someone wants to drive by, we don't want to block traffic.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Speaking of Facebook-organized events, we're not getting a whole lot of attendees for the community war... =\ Probably have to go with the "invite freaking everyone" approach to get more, but that's the same approach that created the chaotic U.K. wars.
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Old 06-19-2011, 03:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

You could try the "invite freaking everyone that you trust" approach :P
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

Got a facebook link? I'll sign up, but if it's in MI I can't attend. Looooong drive for a day of soaking.


Edit: whooooooo New York. Yeah, scratch that... Sorry. Really trying hard to start one out here, though!
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Old 06-28-2011, 01:19 PM   #15
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Wink Re: Water Wars getting bad image by press.

I haven't been into water blasters for very long (more a foam blaster guy), but from what I've been able to read, the water wars don't seem to have any regulations/limitations or rules. Which makes it an easy target for the media to throw up ban claims.

In Foam Wars, many rules exist which are in most part, highly adopted and regulated.The use of 'Death Dart' (darts with pointed tips - tacks, nails etc.) are strictly prohibited and extremely discouraged by the community.

If you look at most Foam Blaster forums, there are strict guidelines to code of conduct on the field and off the field. In no particular order:

1)Random shooting of non-participants is absolutely not allowed at any time!

2)Nobody, but NOBODY is allowed to play without protective eyeware!.
This should be self explanatory. This also goes along with not shooting non-participants. Chances are, an innocent bystander isn't wearing eye protection.

3)There are limits to how powerful a blaster can be at a war.
We can make them as powerful as we want for home and personal use but at a war, a blaster is subject to a 'range test' to verify that it is in within acceptable limits (usually 130' or less).
As a result, many blasters and particular mods to some blasters have been banned for use at wars... more specifically, in public. We as a whole don't want to give the media hords any ammo to illegitemize the sport/game. Unfortunately, there are the few rotten apples that spoil it for the rest of us.
Injuries that occur that the media focus on are more often than not, the result of kids who do not adhere to these regulations.

4)The type of darts have recently become an issue.
There has been a growing movement to ban any dart that has exposed metal. 'Slug Darts' are made with a #6 or #8 washer with a foam pad glue on top. The problem is, the ring of exposed metal has been known to cause serious cuts. Fishing weights and BB's are still used but they are nested inside the foam with a hot-glue tip or felt tip. A weight regulation has also been spreading, making 1.1g the limit.

5)Locations are encouraged to be secured.
Booking a venue or park is becoming standard practice as it gives the public and authorities advanced warning. Doing this also gives the sense of responsible behavior which helps to separate the irresponsible practitioners in the eyes of the public and authorities.
The size of the venue also dictates the number of participants. Too many people can encourage a nuisance report. Especially in a public park, an area is dictated in which no one is allowed to venture away from. Pylons, for example, are used to help tell everyone which is the safe zone. Players and non-players.

Another particular point of interest is that 'realistic' cosmetic mods are not favored by the majority. Any blaster that looks too real, is generally not allowed at public wars. If it is, it gets the bright orange duct tape treatment!

These are just the main regulations we have in place.

I just thought this community might want to start creating or adopting some universal regulations to help 'de-criminalize' your sport.

It's more fun to be allowed to 'actually play' with regulations than to not be allowed to play at all.
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