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Old 08-04-2011, 08:39 PM   #31
atvan
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

What is the shot time on the 12k? In CTF, you are going to want to be able to provide cover fire for the flag bearer, and cover fire requires shot time. If I was a flag runner, I'd be tempted to just take 1 water balloon, or a small XP/MD3k. The water balloon would let you have intimidation of range, but you would have to refrain from using it until you have an open escape, because one you throw it, you would just be a dude with a flag.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

I think it really depends on the type of board and the position of the chess pieces at the moment when you take the flag. If I were the flag runner, and could get parallel to the whole enemy side or out in front, I'd sprint the whole distance, carrying nothing but the flag. It's risky - you give up your ability to defend at all in exchange for the chance of not having to...but fighting your way back with a small gun or balloon is also risky, even with support. Just your speed and creativity can go a long way...it doesn't have to be a foot race. You can sometimes hide as well, fooling the enemy as to your location and intended path.

Purely from a counter theory point of view, there are more ways to counter an armed flag runner than unarmed. The unarmed one is going to be using speed - you can run them down, ambush them, or block their exit. An armed runner is easier to draw into a fight - you can do all of the above options plus a wide variety of standard combat tactics. You can't get a gunless runner to do battle, thus all those gun to gun tactics are off the table.

If there's some reason requiring a weapon, I'd just want a standard primary. If the flag is actually a flag I can stick it under my arm or in my mouth and use both arms to use my primary. If a bunch of enemies pop up, you want to be able to actually defend well - something you won't be doing with an MD3K against a wall of CPS, like bringing a knife to a gunfight. With the CPS 2000, I retain an excellent long-range defense, ability to hold off a couple enemies at once, ability to maybe hit one, and I can always just drop the gun and book it if the opportunity presents itself.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:47 PM   #33
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

My 12k has around 1 second of shot time. I wouldn't say that cover fire requires shot time, to me cover fire=suppression fire, ie you're just shooting to keep your opponents away. For that, I only ever use tap shots. To each his own of course, but I only hold the trigger down if I want to guarantee a hit.
The balloons would come in handy just before an engagement, when the range is too far for a soaker, plus they're something you can use accurately while running (I at least can't aim a soaker while running).
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:22 AM   #34
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

We tried CTF a few times, but it ended up being that I would always just grab the flag and go. Even when we didn't do that, the attackers had the advantage, mainly because they didn't have to defend a set position with short shot times.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:14 AM   #35
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

Did you ever try regular CTF, with flags for both teams?
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

I'd say that for flag runners, carrying just the flag and an MD3k could work out just fine. The MD3k barely weighs you down, and you can use it for those just-in-case scenarios, such as when you are sneaking around but need to make a close range kill to clear the path and sprint away. Plus, more often than not, you'll have opponents running towards you trying to catch up, which does give you a marginal wind advantage. Not enough to reliably get kills, but likely enough to discourage those running. Water balloons are typically too troublesome, but they could be effective in slowing down opponents in pursuit.

Since our playing area is small, I typically never drop equipment when grabbing a flag. It takes time to do so, and trying to grab the flag while unarmed or minimally armed is also risky. Perhaps running in minimally armed with teammates covering is a better approach.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

If you have the enemy running toward you trying to catch up, then they are behind you at some angle and you don't need a wind advantage or anything involving shooting. If they are all behind you, you already won once you cross a certain threshold of lead time. The exception is at longer distances, where someone might have a superior aerobic system (if you only have an alactic system, they will catch up). In that case, you don't want to be carrying anything that would slow you down. Not weight-wise necessarily, just anything that impedes optimized running motion. And, I had a duel with M4 that demonstrated weaknesses in the traditional strategy of drawing a pistol when the enemy may still have their primary. It doesn't work. They may have to be more careful in OHK 1 life elimination, but you need to have a top pistol to even have a chance.

I could see the advantage to carrying a water balloon - you can chuck that double or triple water gun range.

Obviously our playing area choices affect the strategy. If you have to take the flag a mile back to your base, uphill some of the time, you're not going to want to run with much in hand, if anything. You are also less likely to encounter defenses.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

A lot of this depends on who gets the flag. If the person who captures the flag is your fastest player I would most likely want them booking it to wherever you have to take it, and having the rest of the team provide cover fire. However, this wouldn't work if you have to take the flag to the enemy's base.

As for side arms, I think they are more useful in soakfests than in score/elimination games. In elimination/score games you need surprise on your side to give you the advantage. However, if you have time enough to surprise your enemy, you have time enough to reload your primary weapon, which is what I would probably do, rather than use a side arm.

I will use experience to provide examples.

I used sidearms in Vermin War 1, Vermin War 2, Vermin War 3, and Dominator War 2.

V1 (soakfest): Speed Loader 1500 with waterballoons, flour bombs with curry powder and garlic powder, and silly string
V2: (soakfest): CPS 1700, XP 105 riotblasted, SS 30, 50 waterballoons, 4 liters of extra water, and a squirt pistol
V3 (soakfest): CPS 3200 and SS 40
D2 (elimination): CPS 1000 and XP 150 (first battle), CPS 2000 & nothing 2nd battle

In Vermin War 1, I used a Speed Loader 1500 to protect our refill station (horse troth + SL and SS QFDs in a makeshift baricade). It was very good for quickly shooting out medium range powerful blasts in an urban setting with baricades. The waterballoons were good because they allowed me to counter the enemy attack from distance, and help keep them from getting too close to the fort (but they eventually took it.) The flower bombs and silly string provided exelent psychological intimidation to the enemy, once they got into closer range - simply because I got them sticky and smelling bad. Although we lost the war, my side arms did give me a lot more of an advantage than if I had one weapon.

V2: We actually had to drive down the rd to get to a position from where we could hump it through the woods to attack the enemy base. Since we had no friendly refill zones (we had to capture theirs) I needed all the firepower I could get. Since they had an extensive defense network, with around 20 defenders including roving scouts in the woods, I couldn't get caught pumping so I needed instant firepower from all ranges.

V3: My team had a weaponry/personnel advantage over the enemy team for the first time ever. Specifically, we had a more stable team roster, so we had more experience, we had better athletes, and for the first time ever we had more CPS weapons. Lastly, we had a very good base with lots of water, bunkers, and roving scouts. All of this meant that I used my side arm only once or twice in a war that lasted all day long.

D2: In the first battle I lugged an XP 150 and CPS 1000 around the woods for 4 hours looking for the enemy. When engagements did occur, the 2nd day, it was fast, and brief, kinda like speedball. I didn't need to use my 150, so it really just weighed me down. Other people had sidearms, but they didn't get to use them. Even if they would have, the range wouldn't have matched that of the weapons other people were using. Therefore, they would have had to have ambushed people - and the only ambushes that were made were by me with my CPS 2000.

After this I stopped using sidearms.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use them. If XN's team and his enemies weren't armed to the teeth with CPS and modded guns then it might have worked, but everyone was elite. I recognize that playing with/against an elite team of veterans won't always be the case. In the later Vermin Wars, which were all either 1hk or 1hs, I saw several kills made by air pressure blasters. These were much more frequent in large wars that included a greater diversity of players and weapons, than in the smaller wars where everyone or at least 1 team was very experienced and armed to the teeth with CPS and modded guns.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:15 PM   #39
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

i know that people want to hear what i would do. i would have about six primary guns + 3 secondary guns, all pre pressured and at easy access. then i go to the flag, grabit and use my 2000 mk1. if i happen along bystanders/teamates, that need armment and wantto help, i loan them a primary, or 2 secondarys. then i walk back to my base,fighting with my squad.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:39 AM   #40
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

Now how would you do that with your 5 gun arsenal? This is what would you do with what youncurrently have.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:15 PM   #41
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

i would keep a steady pace, and use stealth. i would probably loan guns to more peopl, but the physical condition i am in lets me cary a lot of weight. or i might loan all but 2 primarys and use a large squad and fight back through the path of least resistance.
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:21 AM   #42
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

Lol. Read the post. Combat armament, not strategy. What guns that you have would you use for yourself.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament (Scenario)

it used to be tat i would use my 2000 for this, but now i am leaning tward my scatterblast. such a light, easy to use gun that has a halfway decent range and resivwar.
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