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Old 06-23-2010, 08:28 PM   #16
C-A_99
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

Not necessarily. It'd be much more efficient to have a basic model for stream trajectories, then to adjust the variables to each gun. After all, what happens if we want to add more guns or add a homemade builder? Having to do that on a case by case basis is extremely inefficient and there's no way it'd be a good idea. Even realistic shooters don't take that approach where each different gun has to be done in-depth and its real life equivilent analyzed.

What we need to have is a stream model influenced by the following factors:
- Nozzle orfice
- Lamination (value set manually depending on what type of valve the gun uses, whether the nozzle is manufactured or crudely drilled, etc.)
- Power (can be done in PSI I guess)
- Wind (for the sake of simplicity, wind should be universal throughout a map, though I'm not sure if that's a really great idea)

On the other hand, zeda's idea may not be bad. Reference videos of a few blasters can help fine tune the stream model especially if it is not going to be very accurate nor dependent on higher level math.

I have to discuss this with my friend.
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

I suggest that if you're going to do the variable thing, you should make the default trajectory based on a 1X nozzle blaster. Could make the maths easier.

I've been playing electric guitar for a while, I could maybe devise some riffs for the more awesome/action-able moments.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

That could work, but you would need to be a pro with audacity to get something that is truly awesome.

And you guys are right, we should start with a basic stream size and configuration, and then just modify it for each blaster.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

If anyone has good recording equipment, I could take a few instrumentals of music, but most of the music we'll need will come from one of my friends and me. Music is not a major concern right now though, since I can probably just borrow some songs off my band. (Unless most of you guys don't dig heavy metal with complex drumming/riffing. =p) I can't let ridiculously low quality recordings (i.e. recording your band with a camera mic) in though, for sake of decency.

The major concern with audio is getting high quality sound effects. Anyone can record some lousy-sounding Max-D trigger clicks, but good equipment, or good editing/upmixing will be needed to turn those sounds into good sound effects. Of course, that's not much of a concern right now either but it is something we'll come across sometime.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

For physics stuff, you should do everything in SI anyway.

One way to simplify the physics: Treat the stream as a series of droplets. Size should be the nozzle diameter for smaller blasters, but less for big ones. Treat each droplet as a projectile, with an initial velocity vector as it leaves the nozzle, and calculate its motion, with wind and air resistance. Reduce the air resistance if the droplet has a near neighbour - ie it's part of a continuous stream as opposed to on its own. To do lamination/coherence, apply a slight variation to the initial vectors, which can be gun-dependent.
This approach cuts out the nastier aspects, like surface tension and viscosity, but I think it could still work well.

Rendering might be a bit more complicated - you ideally don't just render each droplet by itself, but instead convert close groupings into larger drops and streams.

Heavy metal is good :-)
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

Okay, where should we have a page/forum for collaboration on this, because Cantab's friend should be able to contribute a lot from what I hear.
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

I've started going through some UDK tutorials. (Just the basics so far but I'll get through as much as I can.) My friend is quite interested in using PhysX for some ridiculously realistic fluid simulation, but it's probably too hardware demanding and/or difficult to implement. He's also going to be quite busy until summer.

I'll admit, this isn't a good start nor a good way to go about things, and the possibility of this project dying out prematurely is very real. (Nothing has been done in the past 6 months as you may have noticed.) However, it's still fun to throw ideas around and see how far it can go. A very basic framework is really all that matters now; expansion in the future for some features will have to be worried about later.

At the same time, I'll be throwing some ideas like the HUD and menu layout, weapon sets, controls, even a few gameplay mechanics onto a text file. Once I/if I make it to my very first map, I want it to be special; it'll probably be made after the place I usually have my water wars.



Edit: Here's a list of map ideas. Consider this strictly for fun for the time being.

WaterBlast Dr. (Neighborhood)
Riverside Park (River/Park)
ZoneFire Extreme Action Park (Paintball/Milsim Grounds)
Foliage Frenzy (Deep/Dark Forest)
The Lakeside (Lake for lots of fun naval warfare/pedalboats.)
Soakfest Alley (City)
AquaBlast Park (Water Park + Amusement Park Background, must feature the infamous Roller Soaker which will hopefully be ridable or at least remote-controllable)

Edit: AquaBlast Park should feature special ride tickets which can be obtained by finding them, or by blasting opponents away and collecting the tickets they were carrying. Tickets can be cashed in to ride sitdown roller coasters (and holding a blaster to fire at those who zoom by; fewer tickets required), floorless sitdown coasters (few more tickets required), inverted and suspended coasters (more tickets), and finally, the roller soaker which will cost the most tickets.
University of Water Warfare (Campus)

Paradise (Island)
Floodwaters (Town and Dam)
The Big Rig (Mid-Ocean Oil Rig)
Exodus (Sea Crossing, inspired by the Bible story)
Apocalypse (Self-Explanatory)
Camp Water Warfare (Primary campaign map? Based off of the CWW map in the RP thread.)
HQ/T (First map, part of IRL series of maps, the place I have my water wars at)

All weather conditions are separate from the maps. That is, each map should ideally support all weather effects. The only exceptions are a few maps where major dynamics with bodies of water are to occur. (i.e. Apocalypse or Floodwaters, though some sinister weather/flood effects can also be done to Paradise.) I think the best idea is to make those maps work in a cycle. For example, on the map Exodus, there could be two bases on each side of a river, and during the weather cycle, a large wind blows in order to part the waters for warriors to march across. Structures could be placed in the river in which to fight around.

Ideas are fun. Or maybe I need something better to do at 3am. (Sleep for example.)
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

My friend codes in C# and wants a project to do. A (very) basic water warfare FPS sounds just like the kind of challenge he'd do. I'll suggest it to him. Maybe if he finishes it, it'll help move this project along.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

UnrealScript is based off C#, but I doubt much of the code will be very interchangable. However, getting a few high quality 3D models and assets wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm still unsure how simple or complicated this will end up becoming; I'll need time.

Edit: Actually, its based off of Java... I think. I'll know sometime.

I think the best way your friend could help is by trying out the Unreal Development Kit. It's powerful, free and everything created from it can be distributed freely. The best way to go about is to have everyone working on the same thing, on the same page. That said, if anyone objects to using the UDK (perhaps on the grounds of it not being open source?), I'd like to hear that out first. However, I generally feel most comfortable using that tool due to its sheer power and my lack of programming experience. (While I hear that the Source SDK is a real pain to work with.) A lot of open source development tools/engines are too outdated; too unoptimized and even constrain the resolution at which you can run the game.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

Ok, so I finished my mods in half life, UT3 and counter strike, and the UDk is far easier to use. Sure, you can create more complex things in Source, but it wouldn't be feasible for this large of a project, at least from my point of view.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

Have you worked with the UDK before? I think the Unreal Engine 3 is more up to date and capable than Source.

In either case, I think we're going to need a lot of scripting for special bodies of water effects. (i.e. the water falls, floods, etc.) Perhaps I should be focusing on the streams first, which I'll get to in time once I figure out how to mod the weapons. On the other hand, I've hardly scratched the surface of what's possible so far and how to do things.

Update: I'll start off by building a rough first map to get things rolling. Originally I wanted to get the weaponry and gameplay worked on first, but that'll come in time as I learn how to use the UDK.

The map will be modeled as closely to my actual battlegrounds as possible. I hope to produce something worth showing later. I'm starting off with a basic pieces of ground using a Google map as a reference. (With the map placed on as a texture.)
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

I can start designing the skins and models, but which guns should be the first ones?
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

Well, what tools are you using to model? (UDK imports ASE for both static and animated meshes, not sure on other formats.) I have a few concerns to address before getting too far on modeling, first and foremost being level of detail. I need to improve my understanding of how UDK handles LOD's. If it's the simple way, where the same model has to be made several times, then I'd like three LOD's per object. Perhaps the best beginning course of action is to model everything at full detail, but sometimes things can be a real pain to reduce the polygon detail on, depending on the modeling techniques you use.

I'm hoping for the quality of the blaster models to be at least somewhat better than those in Super Soaker Championship. It'll be difficult especially as the blaster library grows, but it's something important to consider.

Another concern is modeling/texturing style and quality which will vary amongst those modeling. I suppose I can't do much about that now and will have to wait and see how things turn out. Models done using poor technique is also a concern. (A concern for everyone including myself.)

As for which blasters to start off with, I'd say, pick one that'll be versatile and useful for all water warring situations. Almost any CPS is a good place to start. I compiled a list of blaster sets that I'll be striving to fill later, but if others are working on something, I feel it's best for them to choose what would be most fitting for the game.

I actually stumbled on modeling the house because I was unsure of how to handle LOD. I was beginning to create an archway to the front door of my house but I'm not sure how to handle the curve. Simply doing the same thing several times for lower LOD's (making the arch multiple times for versions with less curve detail) will take a lot of time and if there's a better way, I'd like to use it. (I may be able to do it with NURBS or spline modeling, and be able to easily change the curve detail on the fly, I don't know yet.)

Edit: LOD is far quicker and easier to do than I suspected. All that really matters is that you model the full detail stuff to start off with, then there are many ways to handle the lower detail models:
- Delete features you don't need that badly at a distance
- Merge vertices. Use the merge vertices modifier in 3DS Max (don't edit the mesh or poly; such changes are not toggleable). Perfect for most curved surfaces, including cylinders or even spheres. You'll have to mess with the distance settings manually and experiment to see what works.
- Or the hard way: re-model some features that would otherwise have to be deleted in very low poly. An example would be for a house, replacing high detail windows with inset geometry, to low detail windows where each window is simply a plane/decal imposed over the wall.
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On a side discussion, would anyone like to discuss a campaign story? I have three ideas down:

- Camp Water Warfare: Basically based off of the RP thread.

- Alien Invasion: Goey ET's who come from another planet land on Earth and try to invade. However, they are vulnerable to high concentrations of water. Their weaponry can be goey-blasters which cause a drug-like sleeping effect when humans are attacked, or they can be actual weapons ET's might use; deadly energy directed or projectile weapons. (It depends on the level of violence to be accepted; violence in a water warfare shooter seems awkward, cheesy, and even perhaps unnecessary, but if done correctly it just might be possible, but would drastically change the seriousness/tone of the campaign.)

- Monster Invasion: Similar to above, but goey monsters come from a lab; an experiment gone awry. The monsters don't have weapons of course, but are harmful in some way to some degree. Of course, they are also water-soluble.

Of course, the possibility of a campaign is very far away right now, but it's still worth throwing ideas around.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

3d max for modeling, and I have imported models into UDK before.

Even though they turn out a bit blurry, it works.

________________________________

Definately the alien campaign. That would be friggin awesome.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who's interested in a community project?

I'm not too keen on the idea of goo-based aliens, there's disturbing fetish fuel risks there I think, along with the fact that too often aliens are slimy.

Robots, being shorted out by water, is viable, though obvious.

For something more unusual: salt is dissolved by water. How about either aliens that have scales or an exoskeleton of salt, or an attacker that uses salt as a structural material for the vehicles and weapons.

Or, running with a similar idea, but bringing it back to a strictly earth-based plotline - a criminal/terrorist group has figured out how to make guns out of a salt-based composite. Undetectable by metal detectors, they pose a huge threat. At a loss, the authorities have turned to water weaponry, being able to near-instantly destroy the salt guns.

The last could also be a nice way to bring in some more subtle missions as well as straight-up firefights. For example, you know there is a terrorist somewhere in a location. You have a time limit in which to identify (by picking up on subtle visual and other cues - odd bulges under coats, walking in strange routes, etc.) and soak them, disabling their weapon. Soaking innocent bystanders will piss them off, and if you keep doing so you'll have to contend with an increasingly angry mob impeding your progress.
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Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:
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