The Max D System Must Die

General water gun discussion.
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marauder_4
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The Max D System Must Die

Post by marauder_4 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:41 pm

Just recieved an email from my brother:
The trigger on the devestater broke yesterday when me and Will were fighting.
To those of you who don't fight that often/haven't been around for a long time I can tell you that Max Ds don't hold up. I've owned 2 Aquapack Devastators, a Flash Flood, 2 Liquidators, an Arctic Shock, a Secret Strike, and 2 Arctic Blasts. Out of those guns only the Arctic Blasts are still around. Two of my cousins owned Max D 5000s and those are both broken now. My brother and 2 of my friends had Max D 6000s and all of those are broken. The Devastator and Flash Flood are 2 of my favorite soakers, it's just a shame that they had to use the Max D system.
I can't tell you how much I hate the Max D system. I take good care of my guns and my other soakers almost never break. I am thinking about writing a petition and sending it to Super Soaker. The ironic thing is that I got to talk to Steven Menow, a Hasbro (I assume) representative the year before the Max D system came out, we talked about good names for upcoming soakers and a new "further shooting" line. I even suggested the Liquidator name (based off of an old gun I had) and I remember us talking about the name Flash Flood. I didn't realize that I would come to hate this new system so much.
I am thinking of writing a letter/petition to Hasbro about getting rid of the Max-D line or at least releasing a few higher end soakers that use the old xp style firing system. What do you guys think? Good idea? Think it will matter much? Would you sign?

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cantab
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by cantab » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:48 pm

I concur with the damn things breaking. My Max-D 2000, Arctic Blast, Liquidator, Secret Strike - all broken or unreliable. They may offer better performance, but I'd rather have reliability.

They're gonna need a LOT of complainants to consider changing it though. Like in the thousands. Hasbro may prefer if they break, as has been discussed - though it's notable that that may be illegal in the UK.

In any case, I haven't seen any truly new guns since the Hydroblitz. They're doing re-releases mostly. This includes some XPs, though the only one I've seen in the UK this year is the tiny 215.

And I've heard some people don't have any trouble. It seems to vary.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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marauder_4
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by marauder_4 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:50 pm

How's the Hydroblitz? Also, I think people who say they don't have problems don't fight nearly as much as I do. Over time Max Ds will break faster than other Super Soakers. It's inherent in the design.

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cantab
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by cantab » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:38 pm

Don't know, don't own one. Just saying that to my knowledge it was their last new gun design - though the SS50 20th anniversary is semi-new.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

Tyler
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Tyler » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:40 pm

I have had (or know of in my community) 4 FF's, two arctic blast's, and four Max-d 6000's all break in the triggers, some had been repaired before but I am done with repairing those things!!

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Silence
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Silence » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:47 pm

Yep, these valves have been a problem for me too. I'm not sure how you'd be able to get enough signatures/email addresses for an effective petition, though.

I remember someone cut out the Max-D part of the gear assembly some time back...I can't find it, so I may try to dig up this broken Max-D 2000 that I have and take a look.

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DX
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by DX » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:19 pm

20% of the Max-D valve guns I've owned lasted a complete season. The 20% is a Flash Flood which has only lasted because it has barely been touched since 2007. I had several Max-D's the first year that line came out and they all broke within that season [2002?]. Then again that was during my soakfest stage and near-daily heavy use.

Those crappy systems have never really been an issue to me. With the exception of the WW Orca, I have not bought a non-CPS soaker new in a store since 2002.
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

2004 Red Sox - World Series Champions
2007 Red Sox - World Series Champions!

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Drenchenator
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Drenchenator » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:25 pm

I think the Max-D mechanism is too much for its own good. It tried to solve a simple problem, opening a ball valve, with a complex answer, whatever the Max-D mechanism is. Just a peak at any of the other guns that use ball valves, like the Buzz Bee guns, and you see that all that trouble isn't worth it.

I would definitely support a petition. The Max-D mechanism is overkill, and I'm sure once Hasbro sees the financial reward in simplifying the valve design, they would take it.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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marauder_4
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by marauder_4 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:54 am

DX wrote:20% of the Max-D valve guns I've owned lasted a complete season. The 20% is a Flash Flood which has only lasted because it has barely been touched since 2007. I had several Max-D's the first year that line came out and they all broke within that season [2002?]. Then again that was during my soakfest stage and near-daily heavy use.

Those crappy systems have never really been an issue to me. With the exception of the WW Orca, I have not bought a non-CPS soaker new in a store since 2002.
Like you I almost never buy non CPS guns. Even so, my two favorite new guns, the Aquapack Devastator and FF, are both CPS and Max D at the same time. Both have broken on me. The Aquapack Devastator is an amazing light weapon/backup. It makes me angry that both guns I've owned didn't last an entire season.

Maelstrom
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Maelstrom » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:06 pm

I've only owned 3 Max-D type water guns. Two of them have broken, and I didn't even use them frequently. I'm all for a petition that would improve or remove the Max-D system, but I'm not sure it would be very effective. Hasbro does not seem to place much concern on the quality of their soakers lately.

About Hasbro preferring to have easily-broken water guns: Sure, at first it might boost profits if people keep buying new ones, but after they've had 3, 4, 5 water guns broken quickly, they're not going to buy from that brand anymore.

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Major McMan
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Major McMan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:26 pm

Out of the four Max-D guns I own, only my new Flash Flood is left, and its trigger has a nasty habit of sticking in place while shooting (at least the FF nozzle isn't spewing water like my older one). Last year, my family went to Toys R Us to get my siblings some water guns, and we purchased a Max-D 5000 twin pack. They barely lasted two weeks. That is completely ridiculous!

Marauder 4, I agree- the Max-D system must die.
Last edited by Major McMan on Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cthulhu fhtgan..

My armory: XP 150, XP 220, stripped-down XP 70, Max-D 3000, FF ,Monster '01

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martianshark
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by martianshark » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:36 am

You're right. I bought an Arctic blast a couple months ago, and it's been broken for a while. Every Max-D water gun that I get doesn't last that long. :mad:

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C-A_99
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:32 pm

So far, only my old FF broke. I got a free replacement, and I have several other Max-D triggered guns around. So far, the Oozinator has stood up the longest, but I haven't had any problems with the other ones yet due to limited use.

With that said, many WW triggers have the same lack of reliability. While their springs don't snap, they do weaken and require rubber band assistance or a completely new spring. If both companies used slightly better springs, none of this would even be a problem. As for Hasbro, they seem to be perfectly fine with throwing money away as they did on the HydroBlitz, EES, and Max-D triggers. Of course, they could've spent that money on better springs rather than piss people off and offer to replace the guns. (which most people won't bother to do anyway)

That brings us to the last point. I suggested on iSn that we should try to get as many broken SS's reported to Hasbro as possible, particuarly those with newer design. Get friends to do it to. While the entire community (including teams) may not be enough to really cause changes, the pressure to replace guns will still be there on them. Every newer gun that breaks should be reported to their customer service. Over time, if more and more are reported (enough to bother them), they will either start considering design changes, or they will more likely change their customer service policies and cause more trouble. At that point, the customer can make more aggressive complaints if their policies change.

With that said, I also had a broken Max-D 3000, but broke at the pump instead of the trigger. (quite surprisingly; I think that weak point may be more of a problem than the trigger instead) Thing is, I never bothered to report it, I just repaired it.

Now Hasbro has had a long history of deliberately designing guns to break, such as with the infamous 4100 re-release of 2004. It is unlikely that they will change their designing anytime soon. Aside from complaining to them and getting a free replacement, we can also still repair the old broken gun. The best long term repairs would be to remove the Max-D system and have the valve close similar to WW's. However, that is often difficult to do and requires some creativity in wrapping rubber bands around. It also assumes that the valve has a stopper on it to prevent it from rotating too far. The other long term solution is to replace the Max-D spring with a better spring. However, those springs may be more difficult to find and I personally prefer the first solution, given enough rubber bands are wrapped for effective valve closing. I don't know if the rubber bands will last too long though; they do wear out in a year or 2 in pull valve repairs. But either way, in the end, you'll end up with 2 working guns instead of one, and if the replacement breaks, you can ask for another one.

Teh Moron
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Teh Moron » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:50 pm

Even the newer rereleases are badly engineered. My XP270 holds little pressure.

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Curt
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Re: The Max D System Must Die

Post by Curt » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:42 pm

My Max-D Secret strike is terrible I don,t even want to think about how many times I have had to fix it!

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