Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Discussion of other water gun websites.
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isoaker_com
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Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by isoaker_com » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:31 pm

There has been some renewed interest in reviving WaterWarfare.com, more notably, its set of forums. What I like about WWc is that it is overseen by a solid group of people with a true love of water blasters and water warfare. As the overall water warfare community is presently rather small, the idea would be to use WWc as the merging/meeting point for the online water warfare communities. I would not expect for here or iSoaker.net or other smaller forums like ExtraWater to just shut down, but the idea would be to encourage more postings and activity at WWc which would reduce the need for cross-posting across boards.

Of course, transitions often take members out of their usual comfort zones and I do realize some members here and at iSn would wonder "why bother?" However, the benefit of presently pooling our online activity should help inspire more to join, particularly if all known active water warfare websites also help promote WWc as THE place to discuss water warfare on.

That said, would YOU be willing and interested to join WWc?

:cool:
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Teh Moron
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Teh Moron » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:22 pm

Even if we say yes, chances are you're not gonna do it. We've been shown this in the past, you asking us whether or not it would be a good idea, then backing down a day later. I can tell that you're not really interested in building a combined online forum, so why even bother pretending? Last time the poll had a "yes" vote of 75% (if memory serves me right), yet you still decided to stall talks and cancel the movement, citing the reason that "Forcing two membership groups together does not guarantee increased activity." Of COURSE it does. When you take all of the threads on both forums and put them together, you get more threads than you would have gotten alone.

I'm all for a combined forum, but honestly, I do not see this happening in the next decade.

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isoaker_com
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by isoaker_com » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Memory obviously serves you poorly, not to mention that your "75%" statistic is rather misleading.

On iSoaker.net, the poll in question only had 11 votes, hardly what I'd call a good representation of all members in the community. While 7 said yes (63%), 3(27%) didn't care how to merge and 2(18%) said "yes, but it'd be nice stick with iSoaker.net". 2 (18%) said maybe, and 2 (18%) said no. I have not been able to locate a similar thread here at SSC. From that voting, only 5 (45%) of the vote would definitely agree with using WWc, but by the same token, 5 (45%) of the vote would support sticking with iSoaker.net as the hub. Somehow, I don't quite buy that that is a good estimate on what the overall membership wants.

Moreover, forcing members to migrate to a new forum is rarely a simple task and, from all the examples I've seen, typically results in an initial drop in membership as some members don't wish to migrate and others just don't bother joining the new board, losing interest as their old, familiar posting ground drops in activity. Of course, in the end, membership begins to increase again, but there is the initial risk; there is no 100% guarantee a combined forum will work as intended.

However, you are definitely correct. I do NOT want to build a combined community. I have enough on my plate managing iSoaker.com and other websites, already, that I would not be able to offer what I consider an appropriate amount of help really building another site.

As well, I have NO desire to be an admin at WWc; I'd be more than happy being a member and moderator there assuming the Admins are cool with that. I also do not just want to merge forums, rather I'd like to see something new built that takes the best aspects of all water warfare communities and combines them beautifully.

What I like about WWc is that it has the potential to be a great common meeting ground without being tied to any particular existing site, rather being tied to ALL water warfare/water blaster websites equally.

Of course, believe what you will. Time and overall interest will tell. It is not my decision; it is the community's decision on what will work and what won't.

:cool:
Last edited by isoaker_com on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silence
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Silence » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:21 pm

Teh Moron, I don't know much about Canada law but you should read up on supermajorities and why governments require them at times. Also, we *have* put a lot of effort into both forums and closing them up is not a trivial decision.

iSoaker, there's this thread, but you've already seen it.

At the moment, there's been a large influx of new members who've joined and who wouldn't want to suddenly be locked out. Winter may be a better time since the members still active may mostly want a central forum. Mostly.

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SSCBen
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by SSCBen » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:22 pm

I'm up for a transition to one primary board. I don't particularly care which board it is or even if I'm a moderator.

Like Silence I believe we should wait until winter for the activity to drop. The transition would be far easier without people in the way.

WWc does need a good deal of work but there's plenty of time to prepare if we transition in the winter.

One additional point: I don't think anyone here will claim they be around forever, so a forum not tied to a single site is advantageous. I say this because I doubt I'll be around much next summer even if I set aside time for the forums.
Last edited by SSCBen on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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isoaker_com
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by isoaker_com » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:17 am

Yeah, after hearing DX, Silence, and Ben note their preference on doing more during "off-season" in terms of making board migrations to WWc, it's making more sense to me. I'd still like to see some development re-started at WWc for now, but that doesn't need to involve a lot of people; only those who really wish to be part of the early re-development push.

To also play devil's advocate for the moment, there's also the possibility WWc can't be made to fly so easily even with another attempted push. Should that occur, I'd also be open to pushing these forums as the main site for water warfare and water blaster discussions. In some ways, IMO, SSC's forums offer more stability in the sense that there are more Admins looking after it. iSn has a number of great moderators, but really only has me as the actual Admin.

At any rate, we, the site and community builders, can only attempt so much and it still is up to you, namely the rest of the membership, who really ends up deciding what works best.

:cool:
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Silence
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Silence » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:34 am

Looking at that poll again, my real vote would be "Yes, but not right now." Not a very big difference, but that would mean 8 yes votes, 2 maybe votes, and 1 no vote. DX may be the no vote...not sure. Overall, merging is certainly a popular idea, so when the seasonal membership declines I'm all for it.

cantab, if you're reading this, have you changed your opinion about WWc? I wouldn't want people like cantab or Adrian/Vincent to disappear after the merger.

iSoaker, that's a diplomatic offer, but I don't see WWc failing as long as we do prod people to move there. Tangentially, SSC has always had too large a staff, but it's too strong a tradition to change anytime soon.

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DX
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by DX » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:06 am

I may have been the no vote - I don't remember how long ago that poll was. At present moment I would also be Yes, but not until the off season. However, I would not want to have the current forums merge as in physically merge databases. SSC and iScF are just too set in their own histories, it would be confusing if all the posts were in one place. WWc should be a fresh start, with no alignment like SSC's tech and iScF's stock soakers.

Even if there are no votes out there, the community can't really sustain two big forums and most people have noticed over the past couple years. There's just not enough activity.
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cantab
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by cantab » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Silence wrote:cantab, if you're reading this, have you changed your opinion about WWc? I wouldn't want people like cantab or Adrian/Vincent to disappear after the merger
I'll wait and see. If WWc is set up, I'll probably join there, but I won't abandon here.

I think the problem is we'll simply end up with three forums, instead of two. Unless these forums and isoaker's actually CLOSE. The problem is I won't vote for that until WWc is up and running - but WWc may not get going while SSc and iSn are still open. Bit of a catch-22.
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by marauder_4 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Ben wrote:I'm up for a transition to one primary board. I don't particularly care which board it is or even if I'm a moderator.
I just want one primary board. PERIOD. I didn't post at SSC for the longest time... and I don't know why... but now I post here a lot and it's very annoying to have to make the same posts at both forums so that I get more feedback. I know that SSC has a slightly more techy feel but a lot of the discussions here are the same as over at isoaker. It just seems like a waste to me.
Additionally, what Ben brought up is a good point. With one central board not tied to a site - but tied to multiple sites and all watergun enthusiasts - things would be more stable for the long haul. Responsibilities could be relinquished to others when the main admins plan on being gone for a summer or whatnot with out fear of them messing with your personal site.

Teh Moron
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Teh Moron » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:40 pm

I'd say 10 is a large portion of active, recurring members, and it is those who count. A large portion of your members come in once to solve an issue, or have already left. Most of the oldies have agreed to it, so I say it should happen.

But let us not forget this is the same isoaker.com who caused the death of a website/premier community at the time, Club Aquatica, destroying the water warfare community in 2003. What prevents him from renouncing his support for WWc? Where will we go if WWc dies? You'll inevitably lose members returning and going to a forum, so we should only do it once.

If the merger is to be done, full support from administrators of current websites will be needed. (Forums closing, sites pointing to WWc) for it to be feasible, or you're just wasting your time.

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Silence
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Silence » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:54 pm

cantab, that's reassuring. And yes, point taken about the Catch-22. However, I think that when we get to the point where all active members are those who have accounts at WWc – then a switch would be pretty quick.

m4, yeah, I completely agree that there's just too much redundancy right now.

Teh Moron, no offense, but that's either (1) a rather superficial understanding of what happened to Aquatica or (2) a weak attempt to attack iSoaker just for the sake of it. :P

In terms of stability, well that's a mixed bag. In the end someone holds the rights to the hosting and the domain name, and there's nothing we can do about that. Of course, I don't feel that trust is an issue any longer. If people are still concerned about that, then making a database dump available (perhaps sans private messages) would at least reduce the likelihood of losing everything. That's hopefully not an issue though.

By the way, I'd like to see some newer members post too, if anyone's reading.

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isoaker_com
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by isoaker_com » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

@Teh Moron: I destroyed the online community back in 2003? Wow. Don't think I ever did or could wield such power and you really have no understanding of why Aquatica sadly needed to be terminated. Moreover, WWc is not being built by me, nor paid for by me, nor Admined by me, etc. I can shut down WWc as effectively as I can shut down SSC i.e. I can't. Therefore, your words simply have no validity.

@Everyone: As for general thoughts above, I don't believe there should be a sudden change/closure of forums nor do I think SSC or iSn need to completely close; the existing forums need to be refocussed in a way to drive the main traffic to WWc. My current idea for iSn is to archive most of the existing sub-forums and make a couple of reply-only forums for dealing with iSoaker.com-specific-issues. That way, in the event WWc has server trouble, too, sites like SSC and iSn can quickly post up error/trouble-shooting messages and serve as a relief gate until WWc gets back up. All servers tend to be buggy from time to time so having back-up forums is still a good idea, IMO. Of course, don't want to leave current forums the way they are and hope that WWc grows since sometimes you just need a push to get some members willing to migrate and try out a new place to post.

At any rate, I like the fact the there seems to be renewed interest in redeveloping a joint forum. We'll see how it all pans out, but I hope for the best. As well, my plans for scaling down iSn remain virtually identical, actually, in the event WWc works out well or not. All I need to know if which URL I should/will be directing more traffic and discussions to.

:cool:
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SSCBen
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by SSCBen » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:48 pm

Even if SSC is closed to new posts, everything else would remain the same. Nothing will move. If necessary, we can open the forum and pick up where we left off. Good to hear iSoaker has the same contingency plan.

Teh Moron, I'm not sure what iSoaker did to anger you, but I'd appreciate if you kept things civil.

As for Aquatica, after some thought I do believe iSoaker leaving Aquatica was not a bad decision. The situation was a disaster. The chances of anything similar happening again are slim to nonexistent, especially now. Anyway, let's focus on the future, not the past.

A few ideas worth considering for WWc:

- IRC logs of the #soakertalk channel.
- Archives of some old and no longer online forums (particularly the last WaterWar.net, though, this depends on the availability of archives and willingness of the potential donor).
- Some wiki type features. Particularly the ability for any privileged user to edit the homepage to change links, etc. We have something like this set up at SSC currently, though Silence, Drenchenator, and I are the only people who do much with it.
- Automated backups.

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Silence
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Re: Reviving Waterwarfare.com

Post by Silence » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:41 am

Consolidation of the subforums would be nice too. I still think the artwork forum is underused, especially now that DA/ZOCCOZ is inactive. Battle reports could be a subforum of water wars, too.

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