Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

General water gun discussion.
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soakernerd
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Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by soakernerd » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:42 pm

Why is NERF so much more established than Super Soaker? Why isn't there a larger group of soaker DIY?
What can we do to fix this?
This thread is for your ideas on how to make Water fights popular. I propose following in the NIC's footsteps, because they are a great example of how a small brand became a sport.

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martianshark
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by martianshark » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:52 pm

Except they aren't exactly a sport either. An idea I have would be to build a "battle sport" place with things that people are interested in like paintball, airsoft, and/or laser tag. Then make arenas for nerf and water warfare to make them more popular.

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zeda.beta
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by zeda.beta » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:35 pm

There isn't a large group of soaker DIY? Huh, I must just be a dude messing around with plumbing then. :D
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soakernerd
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by soakernerd » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:52 pm

compared to the huge number of Nerf DIYers, there are very few soaker DIYers.

As Isoaker said in a similar thread (scroll down), Nerf can be played indoors, making it a year-round game. Water guns are seasonal.

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C-A_99
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:12 pm

The definition of a sport is kind of screwy. Merriam-Webster puts it at "passtime", and "physical activity engaged for pleasure" (though I'd have to be honest, the latter can be interpreted in some pretty twisted ways). Paintball is generally the only one of 5 wargames (laser tag, nerf, water warfare, airsoft, paintball) people consider to be a sport, likely because of its organization; it has structure that other war games lack. But is that structure a necessary component to call something a sport? I would say no, as many recreational activities are unorganized and considered sports, thus all wargames can also be sports as well.

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soakernerd
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by soakernerd » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:33 pm

I would be happy if we could get water warfare up to the same level of popularity and organization as nerf.
I want to be able to attend large scale (10v10) wars with other serious water warriors. I want to able to organize events like that. If we can get enough people interested in water warfare, that will happen on its own.

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SEAL
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by SEAL » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:52 pm

Same here man, same here...

I'm not really sure why Nerf is more popular than WW. I guess it's like iSoaker said, Nerf can be played indoors and in all weather, whereas WW can mostly only be played in the summer and when it's hot.

And probably because it's more like shooting a real gun. Same goes for airsoft and paintball. Shooting a soaker is kind of like shooting a flamethrower I guess. :p
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zeda.beta
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by zeda.beta » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:31 am

True, but aren't flamethrowers fun? XD But I digress. Nerf is only more popular because it is seen as less childlike. Great, so shooting foam is LESS popular then soaking people. We need an ad campaign.
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C-A_99
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by C-A_99 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:33 am

Do you really think a 12 year old obsessive CoD fan is going to see the resemblence anyway? I should also mention that most people think all flamethrowers are gas powered and have 5 feet of range.

I would say range is the main factor. Water warfare is stuck to CQB and always will be, and people don't like that. The secondary factor is that it doesn't occur to most people to come up with a hit system when they play with water guns.

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zeda.beta
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by zeda.beta » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:50 am

True, and most of 'em think that the nerf "snipers" that they advertise are going to have awesome range.
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martianshark
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by martianshark » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:29 am

It does have awesome range. You just have to mod it. :p

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C-A_99
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by C-A_99 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:35 am

If modded Nerf blasters count as sniping, then paintball markers and laser tag blasters count as ICBM's, plain and simple. Perfect analogy to show how ridiculous it is to compare any war game's blaster/gun/marker/whatever to sniping.

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DX
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Re: Popularity, Soakers Vs. Nerf

Post by DX » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:04 pm

There are a bunch of reasons:

Range: Getting 100' flat out of a modded nerf gun isn't even impressive. The most you'll ever see out of a manufactured water gun is about 60' angled...and you have to push your gun to extremes to get that, ala 90 balloon K-mod.

Size and weight: Water guns are heavy...they are also huge. My pump shotty is my largest nerf gun, but several of them would fit in the casing of a CPS 4100. My smallest nerf gun is the size of a credit card, and it would outrange a lot of full-size soakers. An MXL with both PC and reservoir full is heavier than many people would be comfortable with. Imagine running across campus during HvZ with a maverick...and then imagine running around with an MXL.

People don't like getting wet: You can shoot your friend with a nerf gun in the hall with little to no impact. Hose someone with a 2000 and they have to dry off.

Year-round viability: Well, to me there is no such thing as too cold for a water gun fight. I wouldn't get hit anyway :p But, a lot of people wouldn't fight in February, even if it's 72. It can be too hot for a water war as well, like 105 with a heat index in the 1-teens. I'm not going to run 10-20+ miles in that. However, nerfers can just go indoors, where you don't have to run 10ft, let alone 10 miles.

Better guns: Though I haven't been paying attention, the official offerings for water guns this year probably suck as they have every year since 2003. Meanwhile, Nerf has come out with better and better guns (the Alpha Trooper of this year is the best HvZ gun ever made) and does sweet things, such as making a series casing clear. They have also actually made some guns easier to mod...nite finders are mod machines. All of the modern springer pistols are easier to mod now that they have screw-off plunger heads. I have some older ones that need sawing and prying. There are also guns that take 0 effort to mod, such as the Maximizer, where you saw off the front, slap a barrel on it, and the range goes from 30ft with arrows to 120ft+ with darts.

Realism: Nerf guns obviously feel more like weapons. Designers like the challenge of making catch systems and pump-action and the such. My pump shotty would get me shot if I pointed it at a cop, even in daylight, it looks too real. I had to explain to a panicked professor during HvZ that it was a toy.

Ease of having a war: Water wars have the same size potential as nerf, but you have to bring in heavy water. A bag of 200 darts fits easily and lightly in a backpack and lasts all day. It's also easier to bring in a load of nerf guns to use than a load of water guns. I routinely use public transportation to attend wars in the region, all the nerf equipment fits in a duffel bag. I needed a whole car trunk for water war supplies back when I had a team.

I don't see why the water war community couldn't be larger, though. There are a ton of young nerfers, so that's not the roadblock. Older and rare nerf guns are just as hard to acquire as comparable soakers, so it's not really ease of armament either (though it is easier to find better starter guns in nerf). I remember when Nerfhaven was this size. It just kinda exploded between 2006 and 2008. HvZ probably had a big impact in drawing in the older college crowd that water warfare lacks.

It's a shame really, now that I have accumulated experience in both activities - I still maintain that water warfare is a more challenging and skill-building game. You don't run 20 miles in a nerf war, nor do you have line manuevers and battles at point-blank range in reed groves where you can't see 5ft in front of your face. We did crazy stuff in water warfare that doesn't happen in nerf. Most nerfers won't even step into a forest, let alone run through one for 3 hours.

Right now, Nerf has the people and the wars, but water warfare has the tactical fun.
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