CPS 3000 Break

Repairs to water guns. Please put repair topics in this forum so that people do not have to sort through so many topics when looking for a repair. If a fix is included in the topic, please add (Fixed) before the topic title to indicate so.
xylenol15
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CPS 3000 Break

Post by xylenol15 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:13 am

Hello sscentral! I'm was elated to find your site and realize that soakers are still popular. I personally find them better than the expensive, bruising, and less fun alternatives such as paintball and airsoft. This year I've been using my 3000 a lot and now... it's broken :eek: . Unfortunately, the problem is that the gun won't shoot, and the bladder is full of water. Reading about someone with a seemingly similiar trigger based problem, I was heartened :D , until I opened it and realized the the orange piece of plastic at the end of the trigger valve was cracked but still functional :confused: . Pushing in the valve pin manually didn't release the water, and the the bladder has been full since the afternoon. The clock is ticking and I'm scared of bladder damage to my 3000, sniff... I'll try to post pics later.
Last edited by xylenol15 on Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:43 am

You're right, bladder damage is terrible...I'll help as quickly as possible, but you should try to forget about that for now. It's really nice to see a new member who reads other stuff at the site, uses decent grammar, and also knows a bit about the dangers of a bladder being full for a while. However, you also do have the right to know that in any case, you can replace the original bladder with latex rubber tubing (LRT) from various online suppliers for greater performance.

So even if worst comes down to worst, don't worry. ;)

Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! if possible, that is...nothing like pictures to help failure analysis. I pretty much need to know more about what the trigger valve looks like. But for now, is the "orange pin" the part where the trigger wire connects to? If so, then I think you should be pulling instead of pushing; but then again, there might be a difference in terminology between us.

Assuming I interpreted the above correctly, you'll probably have to open the trigger valve itself if nothing else (such as leaking) went wrong. And no matter what the orange part is and how I interpreted what it is, make sure its being broken does not harm the other parts--which would indeed be some coincidence.

And now for a few links, since I don't have an immense store of knowledge in my head like some do:
1) JLspacemarine's (he's still active and might be willing to answer some questions) CPS 2000 repair thread
2) a current repair thread; I was going to use much of that post here, but the description here was more specific and deserved a more specific answer

xylenol15
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:28 am

Post by xylenol15 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

Thanks for your prompt answer ! I was afraid of opening the valve because I'd probably have to re-waterproof it with a polymer "cement". More importantly, the white stuff they used at the factory (let's call that cement too, for lack of a better term at present ;) ) is glopped all over some of the screw heads. Oh, and you're right, pulling the pin seems to be the way to release the water, I tried that too. I pushed and pulled, and although the pin moves easily, the movement does not trigger anything. Oh, I did read the CPS 2000 repair a while ago, but I'd like to keep from opening the 3000's cylinder for simplicity. I tried to upload the pics in a word document but the upload failed :confused: . And, yes, the broken piece of orange plastic is at the end of the trigger wire, however, as it is only partially cracked on one part of the round collar it still functions to pull the valve pin back, although as I said this movement no longer triggers the release of water. Since you're an expert I'll take your advice and attempt to open the rounded triangular valve casing as soon as possible if I cannot post pictures for analysis.
Last edited by xylenol15 on Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:56 pm

There isn't much need to rush, since as I said, you can always replace the bladder with another (and more powerful) one. To get the pictures up, you should read "Uploading Images"--it's a complicated process, but hopefully you won't run into any problems.

I'm not really a repairs expert, but I'll do the best I can by scrapping together hints from older topics.

So does this mean you pulled on the pin in a way that would bypass the crack, or did you just pull as you normally would? If you're sure the crack isn't the problem, and if you can't get the pictures up using the method I linked to, you might as well open up the valve.

Check back here if you get/want more information, as I said, maybe JLspacemarine can help. Good luck! And if the bladder must be replaced, then Ben can help you do that like he helped Ichabodv when he comes back from camping...I think.

xylenol15
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Post by xylenol15 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:05 pm

I hope these images are suitable. I've removed the valve casing's screws but the white plastic cement is holding the halves together. I need to find a tool to pry it open, maybe a screwdriver. You can see the plastic is cracked but the part still works, although it is in need of repair, but JB Weld or Elmer's polyurethane glue will fix that comparatively minor problem, although I would personally like to replace it with something made from stainless steel or aluminum. Thanks for directing me to the the very concise picture posting tutorial you wrote. I'm nearly certain the valve casing needs to be opened, but even if these pictures don't show the problem they might be useful to other 3000 users.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl003.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl002.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl001.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl004.jpg
Last edited by xylenol15 on Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JLspacemarine
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Post by JLspacemarine » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:34 pm

Sounds like the valve pin is no more attached to the rubber seal inside the trigger valve, so you need to open it. Remember that you have a bladder full of water pressure in your hands, so you'll probably get wet doing this. Also, the trigger valve of your CPS 3000 seems to be pretty strong, even with no more screws holding it. So be careful to not break any parts of the valve when using a screwdriver to pry it open.
Armory: AS Hydroblitz (x2), MI FlashFlood, STE TripleShot, XP Backfire, XP 215, XP 105, XXP 175, Big Bottle BLaster(x2), SC Power Pak, SpeedLoader1000, SpeedLoader 1500, SpeedLoader Double-Cross 3000, CPS Splashzooka (x2), CPS 1200, CPS 1500,CPS 2100, CPS 2000 Mk2, CPS 1-3-5

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:06 pm

Okay...so I think this is what happened. At some point, the O-ring got jammed, and then the trigger couldn't pull properly. While trying to pull the trigger, the friction on the jammed O-ring resisted, and the orange pin eventually broke. At least that explains why there are not one but two problems.

Go ahead and open the valve, but only if you're confident about getting this repair done. Follow pretty much what JLspacemarine did, and post any questions here. As he said, you're going to get really wet! Needless to say, by this point you're going to need to replace the bladder--well, maybe I'm wrong, but be prepared for it.

When you're done with this repair (good luck!), read Ichabodv's first and second CPS 2000 bladder repair threads. At least you can expect the power of a CPS 2000 (although you might also want a new homemade nozzle selector if the stream lamination is bad). I suppose you could have removed the bladder earlier to release the pressure, but now it's too late.

Anyway, good luck with the repair!

xylenol15
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:28 am

Post by xylenol15 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:03 pm

All right, thanks guys. I'll open it up, once I find a thin enough screwdriver or hacksaw to wedge the halves apart, but I suppose it beats those soakers where the casing is a single piece of plastic :rolleyes: . Oh, thanks for the "you'll get wet" warning, I've personally been expecting a deluge once I open this thing that'll make the flash flood's riot blast look pretty pathetic by comparison.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:33 pm

A hacksaw to pry apart the halves? That sounds a bit excessive and perhaps dangerous to the plunger rod...

I'll see if there are any past threads in which this was required and in which prying was also required.

xylenol15
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Post by xylenol15 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:14 pm

Of course it sounds excessive :D ! We all love super soakers here (except for some secretly browsing Hasbro engineers trying to make the new super soakers mod proof and breakable:rolleyes :) , and the thought of a hacksaw anywhere near a supersoaker will make even the casual enthusiast shiver with stomach turning nausea. However, the results with the screwdriver so far are dismal. Just look at these:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl008.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl007.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl006.jpg
The results of my endeavour with the screwdriver resemble the attempts of a lobotomized rat trying to ingest a piece of plastic that it mistakenly identified as swiss. I need a larger screwdriver for more prying power, but without a gap to stick it in, I'm stuck. :rolleyes: Thanks for searching the threads, I'll give it a shot too. :cool: (Mission Impossible music plays).
Last edited by xylenol15 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xylenol15
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Post by xylenol15 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:40 pm

My plan is to gently slide this across the casing's seam, hopefully removing just enough material to create just enough vertical surface area to use a larger screwdriver which will do more than just chew away at the plastic, whew!
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... 15/Xyl.jpg
Sorry about pic quality, 4.0 megapixels can only do so much at close range.

Edit: After sawing through the seam about a quarter centimeter, I realized that it was full of glue all the way through :mad: . Maybe they substituted a rubber seal with a cheaper glue bond? If this is the case I'll have to cut though the perimeter of the entire valve casing. Darnit, this could take awhile.
Last edited by xylenol15 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:04 pm

Ah, you're right...this is like the CPS 4100's red pump cap. It can't be pried off (I gave up after a while because all I was doing was a tiny bit of damage and opening it didn't matter; I put it back together two days ago), but you can saw it off. I suppose you can saw apart the pieces as long as you don't cut the plunger inside. This means exerting force sideways as opposed to down, which would normally be more efficient.

Try to use a sawzall or metal saw, or whatever you call. You know, that strip of metal blade suspended between a U-shaped handle. Hacksaws aren't very good in comparison.

And to tell you the truth, I haven't done the search yet--a fairly daunting task. I'll get on it right now. :cool:

UPDATE written while xylenol25 was writing his post and couldn't see it: The search pull-down menu was acting up, so I used the Googlebar for a site search. Nothing of use (I checked 85% of them) came up, perhaps because I filtered out the phrase "open trigger valve repair", since those were the four words I unintentially searched for. If you go to the trigger valve repair article at SSC, you'll see a picture of an opened trigger valve--so don't saw too deep or you'll cut off that rim, unless the trigger valve is very different.
Last edited by Silence on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xylenol15
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Post by xylenol15 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:31 pm

I haven't finished opening the caseing, but I did do something pretty satisfying...
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl010.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... Xyl011.jpg
:D :D :D ! Can you say happy? After cutting a groove in the casing seam I tried prying with a larger screwdriver. Success, the water all spurted out! Now I'll just cut away a little more of the seam. I expect the bladder to be damaged but still useable. This is because the pressure bladder retreated a few inches the night after I took that picure of it, the one I posted, the reason being that when it broke I panicked and tried pumping air into it, which displaced the water. The air later escaped when I removed the valve casing's screws, and the bladder deflated a little. I'll report it's condition once I repair the valve. But I'm glad I finally emptied it. The water smelled like latex, if I was allergic I'd be in trouble right now. ;) Oh, and thanks for the saw advice.

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JLspacemarine
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Post by JLspacemarine » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:54 pm

Very good, I think I will be perfectly fixable after you opened it. And if you wanted some pics of an open trigger valve repair, I found these when I was doing the same repair to my CPS 2000:
http://www.isoaker.com/Info/article.cfm ... _monsterxl

It is a Monster XL, and it's trigger valve was glued like your's. Maybe the CPS 3000's trigger valve is simmilar. Good luck!
Armory: AS Hydroblitz (x2), MI FlashFlood, STE TripleShot, XP Backfire, XP 215, XP 105, XXP 175, Big Bottle BLaster(x2), SC Power Pak, SpeedLoader1000, SpeedLoader 1500, SpeedLoader Double-Cross 3000, CPS Splashzooka (x2), CPS 1200, CPS 1500,CPS 2100, CPS 2000 Mk2, CPS 1-3-5

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:35 am

That's great news indeed. I hope all goes well, and if I gave some wrong advice (probable), let's hope Ben gets back in time to correct the mistage. Anyway, good luck with the rest!

Also, you might want to cut a huge ring of rubber out of a thin sheet (better than epoxy) in case the seal isn't held with just the screws afterwards.

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