New to Modding...trouble opening

Threads about water gun modifications.
12stones
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New to Modding...trouble opening

Post by 12stones » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:00 am

Hi Guys,
Great forum you have here.

So, I'm new to this whole modding deal. In fact, I never even knew you could mod a SS till recently (I must have been living under a rock!).

Anyway, I just bought an Arctic Shock as it seemed to be a decent soaker and there was not much variety in the shop. When I got it home, I found that it wasn't that good after all so I'm trying to give it some more power.
My issue is I can't get the dumb thing open!
I've taken out all the screws but it's stuck at the point where the pump connects to the front.
I don't know if I just need to use force to get it off or if there is actually a trick to it...I'm afraid to experiment as I don't want it to break.

I'd appreciate any help. I think once I get it open I can follow the instructions on modding it, I just need to get it open!

Thanks guys!

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:58 am

Try using screwdrivers or something to pry or break it open, and be careful, I almost went a bit too far when opening my flash flood, breaking things instead of unscrewing them. (since I didn't see some, other screws were snugged inside)

Edit: In case you didn't know, you can pre-pump the firing chamber with air to improve stream performance, and of course, using the fill-pump-fill method to maximize capacity. While neither will make great performance increases, they will certainly help a bit. Be careful with nozzle drills, the arctic shock already has a rather low range. (not sure if that's lack of pressure or just the dinky nozzle, I don't own an AS)

Anyways, good luck with whatever you plan to do.
Last edited by C-A_99 on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:51 am

Welcome to the forums! I moved this thread to the Modding section, although your choice for the New Users forum was also good.

Yeah, make sure that you know for sure that it isn't just a screw or something...somewhere. Also, just because it's clearly stuck somewhere doesn't mean the single screw or whatever can't be somewhere else.

It could just be that the blue piece where the pump comes out of is holding the two halves of the casing together. For things like this, using a screwdriver or something to pry of the piece usually works; in some soakers, like my CPS 4100, you actually have to saw off this one piece.

I'm interested to know what you're going to do with this soaker--there's definitely a lot to improve with this gun. There are also a lot of other guns with potential for modding, like the Flash Flood. I'd suggest a nozzle drill for this one and a check valve freeze/pressure release valve disable. Good luck!

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:29 pm

The FF is rather annoying to open, and while I'm not sure if this applies to the AS, but the nozzle pieces have to be pried out carefully on the FF. (especially with the big nozzle) A drill on the small nozzle of the FF would be good, while others prefer creating a nozzle selector on the FF nozzle. You can easily remove the screen on the FF nozzle as well (with a screwdriver or scissors), and it increases the range, though I forgot about how much.

For the AS, I'm not sure about mods other than the PRV disabling and nozzle mods. For a gun that size, it really should've had a larger PC.

On a side, and rather off topic note, it'd be interesting to see a FF and AS hybrid next year, though it looks like they'd want to have only 1 gimmick per gun and could make more with someone buying both guns.

I'm not sure about the AS, but I know the spring that operates the trigger on the FF (of the thin nozzle) seriously needs improvement, that would also be a practical mod/reinforcement, before the spring breaks. Regardless of which FF you own, that trigger is going to break eventually, and it's just the poor connection of the spring that causes it.
Last edited by C-A_99 on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12stones
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Post by 12stones » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:32 am

Thanks guys,
I ended up getting it open. The cap where the pump goes in and out (the pump cap?) was pretty solidly glued to the rest of the casing. With the help of a stanley knife and a couple of screwdrivers I managed to get it off. The only way to get it back on will be with glue but from looking at, I don't think it's even necessary.

Now my next question is what to do with the gun now that it's open?
I'm going to do a check valve freeze, but I don't know where to cut?
I tried to upload a pic but for some reason it wouldn't let me. (It was only about 50KB)

Anyway, I would appreciate any other suggestions for what kind of mods I can do. I've been looking at the types of mods out there but, to be honest, I'm not sure what ones are suitable for an Arctic Shock.
Thanks,

EDIT: Sorry, I think I just found out how to do a Check Valve freeze. It's in the pump right? So is that a screw that's all the way down there that I'll need to get out? Hmm...I need a longer screw driver.
Last edited by 12stones on Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:02 pm

Here's the SSCentral article on CVF/PRVD. Funny, I was never interested in it, so I didn't realize it was such a thorough article! Image And here's a thread regarding how to upload pictures: http://forums.sscentral.org/t3747/

Yeah, glue really isn't necessary. Some people call it a pump cap, but there's no set term. It usually slides off by accident on soakers, so using epoxy or tape to hold it on is a common repair. I haven't done this yet, but electrical tape might be the best solution. It's removable and it's also not thick like duct tape so it won't get peeled off by the pump handle.

There are a few links to see which mods to do: the stickied thread (check out m15399's post in particular), as well as the SSC modifications page. I'd go with a PRVD (correct name for CVF--stands for pressure release valve disable) and maybe a slight nozzle drill.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:19 am

Hello, and welcome to the forums! It's so refreshing to see a new member who uses good grammar, spelling and punctuation. Hope you enjoy your time here.

Yes, as SilentGuy said, we recently changed the name of the Check Valve Freeze (But some traces linger on) to PRVD. The old CVF confused new people, because it wasn't a true check valve, and it wasn't being frozen.

It's up to you what modifications you want to do. I'll issue a warning that the new soakers aren't as well built as in the past, so a PRVD can take a soaker past what it can take. The new oddly shaped chambers don't help with the pressure levels, so take care and consider that your soaker might go West. (or South, depending on which version of the phrase you prefer)

If you still want to go ahead, upload your picture, we should be able to help with identifying where you need to start your amateur surgery.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

12stones
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Post by 12stones » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:21 am

Thanks for the help, guys!
I'll see how I go with uploading this image.
I followed those instructions (uploading to a different photo histing site and copy/pasting the image...

Image

...and it looks like it's working. Too easy!
Sorry about the resolution, I didn't have a camera handy so I used my phone.

If you're able to help me find the Pressure Release Valve that would be great.

Thanks

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:43 am

Whew...it's amazing how much camera phone resolution has improved!

I believe the difficulty is the angle of the picture.
Image

Here's the best picture from Ben's PRVD article:
Image
The purple tube on the left comes from the reservoir. It continues through the tee to another tee. But between the two tees is a wider section--that's the first check valve. It only allows water to go in that direction.

The white piece is the pump. When you pull the pump out, water gets sucked through the first check valve. When you push in, the water goes up through the vertical section on the right because the check valve won't let it go back.

At the top right tee, the water goes right. To the right of the tee is the second check valve--it allows water to go through to the purple tubing on the right that leads to the pressure chamber (PC). It's there to prevent the water going back from the PC.

But then there's that part designated with the two black lines--the pressure release valve (PRV). This valve is usually closed. But when the pressure builds up past a certain threshold that could harm the gun, it opens up. When that happens, the water that would normally go through the second check valve to the PC goes through the open PRV instead. That route bypasses the first check valve, allowing the water to go back to the reservoir.

At some point while pumping, the pressure will get too high and all the water you pump will be diverted back to the reservoir. Some guns, like the old XP soakers, will have a horrendous squeaking noise when the water goes through the PRV. It's safe to close off the PRV and increase the pressure, to a certain extent at least, because the manufacturers keep the threshold low to prevent any possible gun damage and complaints.

So, how do you identify where the PRV is? There are usually two key things to look for: (1) the distinct "square of tubing" (with the regular route and the PRV bypass) and (2) the two check valves (identify them as the large, identical sections in the designated locations). The corner of the square that would be the bypass should be cut off.

Why did I choose only that picture from Ben's guide? Because it is very clear and two-dimensional. Sometimes, the corners of the square will have turns that leave the single plane; like on your Arctic Shock. That's why the camera angle makes it somewhat difficult to see the correct location--because half of the square is hidden.

EDIT: By the way, in your gun it looks like the tank in the top right is the reservoir; the tank in the top left is the PC; and the tank in the bottom is the ice core location. It looks like the water goes from the: reservoir -> ice core -> first check valve -> pump -> second check valve -> PC -> trigger valve -> nozzle. When the pressure is too high, it appears to go: reservoir -> ice core -> first check valve -> pump -> PRV -> reservoir. I could be completely wrong.
Last edited by Silence on Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:02 am

That looks a lot more complex than anything I've seen in ages.

It even looks like the PRV might be linked directly into the reservior, with most of the valves for the pump appearing to the same.

This could be a tad trickier than normal - even I have no idea where to cut.
If you could try to get another picture of the horde of tubing coming out of the top reservior from a different angle, then I might be able to see the PRV.

On a more positive note, that chamber looks a reasonable shape to take the extra pressure.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:25 pm

So that's what the AS's PC looks like? How the crap is that thing supposed to work? It's just going to shoot a mist shot quickly like that.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:26 pm

@ joannaardway: Yeah, that is a bit confusing. A few possibilities though: the wider part in the foreground that seems to go into the reservoir is the PRV. Or it just looks like it connects but actually doesn't.

@ CA-99: The PC is actually in the top left. I'm guessing there's tubing leading to the bottom of the tank or something to prevent air from being sucked out. I don't know.

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:44 pm

Yeah, that's what I was refering to. At that angle, the air is going to go to the top where the nozzle is and the rest of the water would sit on the bottom. Just look at the XP310's PC's and you'll get what I mean. There's a lot of dead volume of water that would reside on the bottom.

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joannaardway
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Post by joannaardway » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:27 pm

@ CA -99: I'm assuming it's like the 3xA - a small hose inside the chamber leading up from the bottom to the nozzle assembly. So, more or less as SilentGuy said.
"Over the hills and far away, she prays he will return one day. As sure as the rivers reach the seas, back in his arms again she'll be." - Over the Hills and far away, Gary Moore

"So many people have come and gone, their faces fade as the years go by. Yet I still recall as I wander on, as clear as the sun in the summer sky" - More than a feeling, Boston

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:13 pm

Oh, sort of like the intake tubes on PR guns. Come to think of it, I wonder why they didn't use intake holes instead of tubes for most of the PR guns (and shape the guns accordingly) since they're much more efficient. (Well, I'd also have to wonder about the switch from translucent to opaque reservoirs, the awful springs used on some Max-D triggers, etc.)

I agree about trying to get a pic at another angle, the PRV seems to be shoved all the way behind everything.

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