Question about CPS 4100

Repairs to water guns. Please put repair topics in this forum so that people do not have to sort through so many topics when looking for a repair. If a fix is included in the topic, please add (Fixed) before the topic title to indicate so.
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solar00
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Question about CPS 4100

Post by solar00 » Sat May 19, 2007 3:38 pm

Hi ,

i have a CPS 4100 (i thinks its a MK2 because of the whitening on the orange plastic of the trigger)
I read a lot of threads of broken 4100 triggers so i guess its going to break soon.
There comes a lot of pressure on it when firing with a fully pumped pc.
It isn't used a lot (i think its filled 10 times in total), the whitening was already there after filling it 2 or 3 times.

Because its in a mint condition( i've got it in original package) and never used in a water fight i don't like to saw the red cap off to open it up so soon (maybe when its a little older)


How long should the trigger last before it breaks? (does it take a lots of fights or only a few shots)
Does it help to pull trigger with the finger near the gun (instead of at the end of the trigger)

And if it breaks, is it possible to replace the trigger instead of glueing and re-enforcing it.

Thanks in advance,


One addition.

The back of the package says : Extreme soakage and squirtage
And it has a seam on the back of the tank, but there is no number under the super soaker logo (there are numbers under the Larami logo on the other side), and the cap is all orange it also has the rectangular ridges

It seems that it has some MK1 and MK2 properties so i'm not sure it's a MK1 or MK2 (maybe a MK2 in a MK1 box) (it was in an old stock of a small local toystore)
Last edited by solar00 on Sat May 19, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CROC
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Post by CROC » Sat May 19, 2007 4:39 pm

I can't help with how long until the trigger breaks, but if and when it does break, and you don't want to reinforce it, you could make the trigger out of aluminum sheet. Just be sure to get the measurements as close as you possibly can, and it should work fine.
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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Sat May 19, 2007 5:06 pm

Reinforcement is the best way to go. I did that to my 2100's (mkII) trigger piece and it hasn't had a problem since then. Just get some gorilla glue or epoxy, something for cutting steel sheets, and just some flat pieces of steel, then glue them on. There's an article on this site about that repair, but here's an example of mine:

Image

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sat May 19, 2007 6:25 pm

Kudos to you for researching and deciding to ask before the trigger breaks. Wish I had been smart enough to do so. :)

It's kinda hard to say exactly when the trigger will break. It could be minutes, days, or months. But whitening plastic and a hard-to-pull trigger are definitely danger signs. It'll eventually get so hard to pull that you might even need two hands to do so, and even then it'll be a struggle. It would be wise to reinforce the trigger then, but the earlier the better.

I understand what you're saying about sawing the front off. In fact, I was apprehensive about sawing off my CPS 4100's red cap - even after the trigger was broken and there was no other option!

Still, I think you might as well cut off the red piece, reinforce the trigger (it's about 50 times easier to reinforce a good trigger than it is to repair or replace a broken trigger), and tape on a circle of plastic or the old red cap to cover up the cut. That said, there's probably not much motivation to saw off the cap at this point. The trigger will definitely break soon, but opening the gun is a psychological thing. 'Tis a pity. :cool:

You can try pulling the trigger near the top. It probably won't help too much though, and if you forget once, the trigger is toast anyway. Pulling near the top is, frankly, a temporary solution. I think I remember reading DX's suggestion to do so, maybe you have too.

You can replace the trigger with something else if it breaks. Coat hanger wire has been used, and Plexiglas/Lexan/etc. has been suggested and seems convenient. Replacing is probably the easiest solution when the trigger breaks. However, reinforcing beforehand is probably an even better solution.

Good luck! :cool:

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solar00
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Post by solar00 » Sat May 19, 2007 7:24 pm

Thanks for your replies,

I still have to think about sawing the red cap off.
But when it breaks i'll have to do it anyway, mmm difficult decision.

I want to have at least one fight with it before i perform the surgery ;)
Or i can wait till it becomes harder to pull the trigger.

The biggest problem is that it was the last one available so if it is ruined i don't have another chance.
(same for the K mod i want to try on my cps2100)

The least i can do now is to collect the materials i need for a repair or replacement.

Is gorilla glue the same as any other polyurethane glue ? (because this brand is not sold in here in the Netherlands , but i can order it online from the UK)
Or will Epoxy just be fine?

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DX
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Post by DX » Sun May 20, 2007 12:01 am

Like Silence said earlier, opening the gun and sawing off the cap can be an issue. Personally, since I'll do anything to a gun in order to repair it, my 4100 cap was history before the saw hit the plastic. You can saw down the middle rather than across, so at least the two halves remain there and close with the gun. It would have a scar line, but at least there would be no gaping hole where the cap was.

Reinforcement definitely is better than replacement. After all, 1 ounce of prevention is worth more than 100 of cure. Personally, I wouldn't wait for the first fight to reinforce. Given the signs you've described, it may be a short fight... :p Then again, that is a judgment call - no one can tell exactly how long the trigger will last.

There are many, many options for both reinforcing and replacing. Plain epoxy works fine if no other suitable glue can be found. I don't know much about replacements because all of mine have been triggers from other broken guns. From what I've seen, you can force the trigger of just about any CPS gun into another CPS gun.

If your 2100 K-mod works, I wouldn't be so worried about this CPS 4100. A good 21K will blow a 4100 out of the water in range, stream speed, number of shots, versatility, and overall practicality. Plus, if you do not disable the pressure release valve, that mod is fully reversible if you screw up.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun May 20, 2007 1:54 am

Shoot, why do I keep on forgetting about sawing down the middle? Definitely a better solution.

Epoxy should work well enough - just remember that you need something solid, like a thin sheet of metal or plastic. Also, I was under the assumption that Gorilla Glue was actually designed for wood, but I may be wrong.

Good luck with the pre-repair!

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Sun May 20, 2007 2:38 pm

For the pump cap, if sawing it is a problem, I'd recommend using a screwdriver (the ones with the flat tips, I shaped) and hammering it down. This gives you less of a chance to screw up, makes much less of a mess, and worked just fine for my Flash Flood. (though I made a dent in the pump rod but it's not really a problem) Just hit it down the middle and get it to open up, use the saw if this method proves unsatsfactory and you don't need to worry about damaging anything else.

Even if the trigger piece breaks, you can still repair it. The pic I posted earlier was a repair on a broken trigger piece; with a little luck and good placement of the metal pieces, you should be able to get it to work well.

Overall, don't sweat it. Look for weird ways around things. Actually, I never thought of that method, my dad did, and it works wonders. (however, the 4100's trigger seems to be somewhat worse than the 2100's, just try and see what works, and reinforcing before it breaks is still the best way) I did however, use the screwdriver method to safely split the pump cap on the FF when opening it.

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solar00
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Post by solar00 » Mon May 21, 2007 1:04 pm

Thanks again,

I have found the metal sheet i need for the job,

But the local store sells 3 kinds of Epoxy glue and also Polyurethane Glue.(if i must believe the text on the package the polyurethane is suited for plastic or metal on plastic) So first i'm trying to find out which one is the best for the job.

I was wondering if i could split the red cap with a Dremel tool (with cutting blade) , i guess that should make a straight and thin cut.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon May 21, 2007 9:00 pm

Most glues should do fine - there's not too much stress here. If you were sealing up a leak in a location with potentially high pressure, then I would be concerned. Both the epoxy and polyurethane should work, judging from your description.

A cutoff wheel might do the job, but ironically, the cut might actually be straighter with a hand saw. Not as smooth, naturally, but perhaps straighter. Still, whatever does the job should work. And I suppose a long hacksaw can't cut a line down the middle very easy.

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Owners
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Is this what is happening to my Max-D 5000

Post by Owners » Sun May 27, 2007 2:12 am

The trigger on my Max-D 5000 is becoming harder and harder to pull after passing shot....could this possibly be the same problem as with his 4100.
Rule the day

Cps 4100 Cps 2700 Xp 110 Xp 60 2 FFs Max-D 5000 Max-D 3000 with a CVF and a Tarantula

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Sun May 27, 2007 2:40 am

^Sounds similar to one of my friends' Max-D Secret Strike. (not to be confused with this year's Secret Strike) Apparently, the stuff inside just started rubbing against piping a lot, and then some piece that controls the turning of a piece that turns the valve just broke off. For once, the broken Max-D trigger wasn't from the spring...

Man, the more of these triggers that break down, the more I start to dislike the Max-D system.

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Owners
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Post by Owners » Sun May 27, 2007 2:53 am

^ Well the Max-Ds could be much worse (noises, blinking lights)so lets be content.

And it might be rubbing up against something so ill open it up and check.
Last edited by Owners on Sun May 27, 2007 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rule the day

Cps 4100 Cps 2700 Xp 110 Xp 60 2 FFs Max-D 5000 Max-D 3000 with a CVF and a Tarantula

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun May 27, 2007 3:54 am

Good question, and I would also recommend opening up the gun. And good point about the Max-D series...at least it's got some range.

I hope you get everything sorted out! :)

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Owners
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Post by Owners » Sun May 27, 2007 4:04 am

I had all the screws taken out except for one and it was in a vital position, i tried for 45minutes to get this screw out and nothing would do it, so I've decided I'll do it with some fresh energy tommorow. ::Hey thats funny the MD5k only has 8 less screws than my cps 4100::

And thanks for the encouragement it helps as a first day member.
Rule the day

Cps 4100 Cps 2700 Xp 110 Xp 60 2 FFs Max-D 5000 Max-D 3000 with a CVF and a Tarantula

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