Flash Flood

Repairs to water guns. Please put repair topics in this forum so that people do not have to sort through so many topics when looking for a repair. If a fix is included in the topic, please add (Fixed) before the topic title to indicate so.
totokan
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Flash Flood

Post by totokan » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:04 pm

Ok, so the triggers on my FF don't work. Easy fix, right? Bottom spring broken, replaced with one from top. Top valve hard to pull, use rubber band. Wrong. Now I have issues with the bottom one. Pics:
Full pic:
Image
Bottom with issues (Normal form of closed):
Image
Way mine closes (not all the way):
Image
Look at the middle right, there's a metal piece that's not working properly.
Video of issue:
Image

totokan
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Post by totokan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:24 pm

I fixed it. Easiest type of repair. Instead of a spring, I put a whole bunch of those little rubber bands you use between your braces (My mom's works for an orthodontist), and it works fine. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. Also, while I'm at it, I cut out the metal thing in front of the FF nozzle, was that a bad idea?

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:35 pm

^You mean the screen? Removal of that actually improves performance. However, I believe they put it there so the kiddies wouldn't be getting dirt or anything down the firing chamber, which isn't a problem as long as you're handling the gun properly.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:39 pm

Nice. Sorry I couldn't reply earlier...I was out of the house nearly all day yesterday, as you can see from my posting times.

Yep, most people use rubber bands instead of springs - much easier. I also use those orthodon'tics rubber bands, as they're the perfect size in nearly all cases. :)

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:02 pm

For anyone who has used them, how long do they last? I just did some rubber-banding on mine and after a few months, I still got to replace them again. The spring on the flood nozzle is still intact, but often locks up and doesn't open. (or opens a little and leaks out) I tried adding rubber bands and that didn't work, then I reversed the spring and that fixed it temporarily. Now it's coming up again.

totokan
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Post by totokan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:03 pm

They're made to last for a few months, and under constant stretching/unstretching in the mouth, so I think it's a good long time. I had to use like 5-7 for each valve, though (both were broken)

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Kalogagatya
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chloride

Post by Kalogagatya » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:10 pm

hey totokan

have you been using your FF inside a swimming pool? i have a bunch of them and i noticed that all the little metal pieces in all of them were getting rusty really fast because of all the chloride in the water... now i try not to put them inside the pool :)

just a piece of advice ;) hope i can help

totokan
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Post by totokan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:15 pm

I dunno, probably, all my guns are part of a collective stash of the neighborhood. I've been fixing them for the summer, if you haven't seen my other thread on the 1000 or the one on the Lightning.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:13 pm

The lifetime of the repaired trigger depends on how many rubber bands you use. Some people will use just enough to close the trigger valve each time you fire. I generally add 25-50% more rubber bands, just in case. It makes the trigger a bit harder to pull, but you won't need to perform the repair very often.

If you want the repair to last, use springs instead. I'm actually quite surprised nobody has used extension springs before for such a mod. Actually, I've noticed that the Orca uses an extension spring to close the valve anyway. Maybe Ben could add extension springs to the open trigger valve repair article for the site update. :cool:

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:51 pm

I don't use extension springs simply because I can't find any that happen to fit. (well, I can't really find any period) The springs (at least ones that fit) definately would make the best repair, especially since no stress is applied when the trigger's closed.

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:46 pm

Well, they still apply some force...you'll have to do some displacement in order to get the valve to close all the way. Otherwise friction would stop the valve at maybe 95%.

The main bonus is the difference in material. Rubber loses its elasticity quickly, whereas metal can take thousands of cycles. Usually. :cool:

Yep, I'd suspect availability is the greatest issue. Compression springs are used pretty much everywhere, but extension springs (at least of this size) are a bit harder to find. I'd presume you'd normally order them from McMaster-Carr. Maybe these should be another part in the tentative homemade store.

totokan
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Post by totokan » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:20 pm

I figured out what's wrong with all my valves. The springs, which look fine and work the way they should, are not the problem. It's the valve itself. After lubricating the inside of the valve with silicone spray lubricant, the valve is much easier to close/open and the spring works fine now.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:00 am

That's something pretty important to note. Repairs for this problem have been adding springs or rubber bands. I don't think anyone considered lubrication. Thanks for figuring that out! That'll help a TON of people. :)

totokan
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Post by totokan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:49 am

After lubing my FF the same way, I was able to use the original spring for the top valve. I had tried lubrication before, but I tried it on the part that is turned to open the valve. Whereas this did nothing, directly spraying on the closed valve and opening it a few times greatly reduced the power required to open it. This is probably the problem that will plague most new guns, probably Max-D series on. I don't think it would work on a similarly afflicted CPS 1000, since it uses a different triggering system (as opposed to a ball valve)

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:20 am

Brilliant! :)

Lube would work for pull valves if you can get it in there. But Max-D ball valves (like that of the FF) are far more susceptible to this problem, so lube should still solve many issues.

Mind if we use the pictures in an article for the site update? Thanks in advance. (Or, if you wanted to, you could write up an article about the lubrication yourself. :cool :)

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