Linking Rules on "This Week's ebay thread"

Buy, sell, trade, or discuss prices of Super Soakers and water guns here. (For members only)

Should every water gun auction on ebay be allowed to be linked/shown, or should there be some rules

Yes
8
47%
No
9
53%
 
Total votes: 17

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Fri May 20, 2005 11:49 am

Yes= Rules and restrictions for linking

No= Link whatever you want on ebay as before

*Warning: Please read and research the topic first before voting. Once you voted, it can not be changed.*

This poll is about the discussion on This Weeks Ebay Thread, if every water gun auction should be linked freely as before, or if there should be some restrictions or rules of what should be listed. Feel free to vote and coment about your view on this matter.
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Fri May 20, 2005 12:01 pm

I voted for No on linking rules.
My arguments are these:

1. Ebay is a public site where no part should be hidden to the public like in only selecting certain links.

2. Not showing hard to find links would favor experienced soaker users who have experience with ebay searching as well, leaving newcomers behind on ebay.

3. As the creator of the ebay thread I intended it to inform everyone about every auction. An auction is meant to be viewed by everyone, and is NOT first come first serve like in a retail clearance sale.
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Spinner
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Post by Spinner » Fri May 20, 2005 12:12 pm

I voted Yes on linking rules.

Arguments:

1. People who have spent time in trawling through eBay to find a hidden auction should be allowed to reap the rewards of their labour.

2. Soakers can still be purchased for reasonable prices in these hidden areas; do we all want to see most items going for $70+?

3. Sellers can still advertise their wares, but yelling about hidden auctions, when one has no interest in buying or selling it, can simply annoy people who had bothered to search hard and were hoping to win it cheaply. This point could be summed up in the word "friction".

Counter-arguments to the other side:

1. No parts of eBay are hidden to the public; all are available, given that people do some work themselves.

2. Searching on other terms requires little help, only a bit of "nouse".

3. It is up to the administration, not the thread creator, to decide whether a thread is a good idea or not.

I do believe that the proposed rules are balanced. Let me repeat again that this is nothing compared to boards like NerfHQ, where no linking is allowed, unless you're selling an item. That seems too restrictive to me, but I think some restrictions are nonetheless needed.
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Fri May 20, 2005 12:38 pm

Counter arguments:

1. One could argue that restrictions or censorship on what to link would already count as keeping some ebay information away from the comunity.

2. If hard to find links are not that hard to find, then there should not be a secrecy about it.

3. The purpose of Admins and Mods are to monitor and regulate a thread to avoid board guidelines to be broken. If none of the board guidelines have been violated, editing or changing the purpose of a thread would supress the freedom of speech that is vital to keep the quality on a messge board.
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Post by Spinner » Fri May 20, 2005 1:04 pm

Originally posted by ANNIHILATOR 2@May 20 2005, 12:38 PM
Counter arguments:

1. One could argue that restrictions or censorship on what to link would already count as keeping some ebay information away from the comunity.

2. If hard to find links are not that hard to find, then there should not be a secrecy about it.

3. The purpose of Admins and Mods are to monitor and regulate a thread to avoid board guidelines to be broken. If none of the board guidelines have been violated, editing or changing the purpose of a thread would supress the freedom of speech that is vital to keep the quality on a messge board.
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Counter arguments:

1. Nobody here has any power over what in generally on eBay; thus we cannot be said to be hiding items.

2. Hard to find links require a certain amount of knowledge that comes through experience, and a certain amount of work. They are not "secret", only I suggest they should be primarily be taken advantage of by the ones doing such work. If you've worked out how to find such items, well done! Make use of it and buy the item!

3. The purpose of Admins and Mods is also to guide the board in a way that they feel would benefit the community, which involved both making the rules and enforcing them. Let's get this clear, at no board, whether it be here, iSoaker, SM, etc., is there "full freedom of speech". All are influenced to some extent by their administration, which in turn takes into account the views of its members. Ultimately, though, each board's admin(s) will decide his/their own way they want the board to go in.
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Hunt_and_Annoy
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Post by Hunt_and_Annoy » Fri May 20, 2005 1:28 pm

uh, I voted YES, because I think that people should have to do their own work to find stuff on ebay , not just go take a look at the ebay thread. And I also think that we should take the nerfHQ rules on ebaying, they seem fine to me.

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Post by Forceuser » Fri May 20, 2005 4:18 pm

I voted no, and I would have to say that people should be free to link to whatever they want. One of the items I recently posted, which I reposted again just before it ended (I apologise for re-posting it, but I cannot find a rule telling me not to) was a badly listed item. However, even with me posting it twice, it still went for a good price, showing that regardless of whether it is posted it can still go for a good price. I know that this is just one item, but I think it would be like that regardless. The number of people on this forum actually looking is not likely to be that many. If the people who found the item really want it, then they will be prepared to outbid others to get it.

EDIT: What about the search terms, "Supersoaker", "Water Warriors", "Storm", etc.? Would they be allowed or not?
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Spinner
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Post by Spinner » Fri May 20, 2005 4:30 pm

Originally posted by Forceuser@May 20 2005, 04:18 PM
I voted no, and I would have to say that people should be free to link to whatever they want. One of the items I recently posted, which I reposted again just before it ended (I apologise for re-posting it, but I cannot find a rule telling me not to) was a badly listed item. However, even with me posting it twice, it still went for a good price, showing that regardless of whether it is posted it can still go for a good price. I know that this is just one item, but I think it would be like that regardless. The number of people on this forum actually looking is not likely to be that many. If the people who found the item really want it, then they will be prepared to outbid others to get it.
[snapback]24844[/snapback]

You don't have to apologise about it...we're currently considering implementing the rule.

The point is, that particular gun could well have gone for less. The idea is to keep those items quiet, so the prices stay at the absolute minimum. Outbidding battles should be more restricted to main search results. ;)
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Fri May 20, 2005 7:24 pm

Originally posted by Spinner+May 20 2005, 09:30 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spinner @ May 20 2005, 09:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Forceuser@May 20 2005, 04:18 PM
I voted no, and I would have to say that people should be free to link to whatever they want. One of the items I recently posted, which I reposted again just before it ended (I apologise for re-posting it, but I cannot find a rule telling me not to) was a badly listed item. However, even with me posting it twice, it still went for a good price, showing that regardless of whether it is posted it can still go for a good price. I know that this is just one item, but I think it would be like that regardless. The number of people on this forum actually looking is not likely to be that many. If the people who found the item really want it, then they will be prepared to outbid others to get it.
[snapback]24844[/snapback]

You don't have to apologise about it...we're currently considering implementing the rule.

The point is, that particular gun could well have gone for less. The idea is to keep those items quiet, so the prices stay at the absolute minimum. Outbidding battles should be more restricted to main search results. ;)
[snapback]24845[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]

While keeping it low is the goal of every bidder, it is not the goal of an auction. First come first serve rules are for "buy it now" auctions and basic retail. An auction is meant to be bidded on, and the victor is meant to be the one who pays the most. That is what an auction is. Restriction on outbidding battles are not ebay polecy. Methods from keeping other people from bidding or interfeering with a running auction would violate auction rules. Not just ebay, but any auction. Censorship on the ebay thread is very similar. It is meant to keep people away from bidding at an auction.

The element that I am oposed to is claiming property over certain links that are suposed to be shown to the public. If someone has found a rare link, then they have the right to show it. Its basic freedom of speech. Of course they can always choose not to show it. While I encourage people to show everything vital, they don't have to. But one can not eliminate the choice option which is one of the basis of freedom of expression, since that would severly hurt the credibility and quality of a messege board.
The fact that the Nerf forum bans ebay links shows that that site has fanatics running it. It always takes some quality away from a site when members are censored for things they should not get censored for.
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Post by Spinner » Fri May 20, 2005 9:28 pm

Originally posted by ANNIHILATOR 2@May 20 2005, 07:24 PM
While keeping it low is the goal of every bidder, it is not the goal of an auction. First come first serve rules are for "buy it now" auctions and basic retail. An auction is meant to be bidded on, and the victor is meant to be the one who pays the most. That is what an auction is. Restriction on outbidding battles are not ebay polecy. Methods from keeping other people from bidding or interfeering with a running auction would violate auction rules. Not just ebay, but any auction. Censorship on the ebay thread is very similar. It is meant to keep people away from bidding at an auction.

The element that I am oposed to is claiming property over certain links that are suposed to be shown to the public. If someone has found a rare link, then they have the right to show it. Its basic freedom of speech. Of course they can always choose not to show it. While I encourage people to show everything vital, they don't have to. But one can not eliminate the choice option which is one of the basis of freedom of expression, since that would severly hurt the credibility and quality of a messege board.
The fact that the Nerf forum bans ebay links shows that that site has fanatics running it. It always takes some quality away from a site when members are censored for things they should not get censored for.
[snapback]24846[/snapback]

Firstly, I never said there should be an official restriction on outbidding battles. My point was that they could be effectively kept in the main stream of soakers by keeping quiet about the rare auctions.

Secondly, nobody is "claiming property" over links.

Thirdly, and this is the biggest, what you call "censorship" is a fact of life at all but the least organised boards. Whethere members will be censored for something is up to the board administration. What you keep referring to as "freedom of speech" is limited by what the admins will allow. If you don't like the rules of a forum, you don't post there.

Fourthly, labelling other forum admins "fanatics" is a plain bad idea. You don't have to post there (you don't, obviously).
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Post by MilkMan » Fri May 20, 2005 10:31 pm

Although I do agree that it might be raising soaker prices I voted no soaly because if I can remember correctly, didn't The Dark Annihilator start that topic for posting every single soaker on ebay for the good of the community? :huh: Look back at the first posts of the topic. In fact I remember when that topic had its innocence (although I didn't join when it first started). Should we really strip it of what it was always meant for? Lazy people?

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Fri May 20, 2005 11:36 pm

Originally posted by Spinner+May 20 2005, 02:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spinner @ May 20 2005, 02:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ANNIHILATOR 2@May 20 2005, 07:24 PM
While keeping it low is the goal of every bidder, it is not the goal of an auction. First come first serve rules are for "buy it now" auctions and basic retail. An auction is meant to be bidded on, and the victor is meant to be the one who pays the most. That is what an auction is. Restriction on outbidding battles are not ebay polecy. Methods from keeping other people from bidding or interfeering with a running auction would violate auction rules. Not just ebay, but any auction. Censorship on the ebay thread is very similar. It is meant to keep people away from bidding at an auction.

The element that I am oposed to is claiming property over certain links that are suposed to be shown to the public. If someone has found a rare link, then they have the right to show it. Its basic freedom of speech. Of course they can always choose not to show it. While I encourage people to show everything vital, they don't have to. But one can not eliminate the choice option which is one of the basis of freedom of expression, since that would severly hurt the credibility and quality of a messege board.
The fact that the Nerf forum bans ebay links shows that that site has fanatics running it. It always takes some quality away from a site when members are censored for things they should not get censored for.
[snapback]24846[/snapback]

Firstly, I never said there should be an official restriction on outbidding battles. My point was that they could be effectively kept in the main stream of soakers by keeping quiet about the rare auctions.

Secondly, nobody is "claiming property" over links.

Thirdly, and this is the biggest, what you call "censorship" is a fact of life at all but the least organised boards. Whethere members will be censored for something is up to the board administration. What you keep referring to as "freedom of speech" is limited by what the admins will allow. If you don't like the rules of a forum, you don't post there.

Fourthly, labelling other forum admins "fanatics" is a plain bad idea. You don't have to post there (you don't, obviously).
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[/b][/quote]

I am not talking about you or anyone specificaly. While no one officialy claims ownership, it is implyed. If someone sais that certain links should not be shown so that their own bids remain low, it is implyed that the specific auction should be theirs.

As for censorship, the rules of the forum are exactly that. Main basic guidelines like no offensive material like racial slurs, insults... . Admins are there to regulate the issues on the basic rule guidelines. The moment they make up stuff on their own and enforcing it, shows misuse of their Admin status. In other words, if the basic board guidelines are not violated, Admins can not supress freedom of speech. It IS the basis to nurture diverse and high quality discussions on boards. The moment Admins censor non-violating material just because they personaly don't like it, is the moment the board is no longer an actual discussion. The board would be no longer for the general comunity, but only for the Admins and people who agree with the Admins personal views. And that is simply a flawed element in a board.

As for the Nerf Admins, if they have unecessary restrictions on their boards, it clearly shows some psycological insecurities. I've seen similar things on other genre fan sites. There is a certain point where the keyboard and monitor should be replaced by a chair and a therapist.
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Post by SSCBen » Sat May 21, 2005 12:24 am

As a compromise, I am making the Trading forum readable by members only.

Those who join will still be able to use our forum, however, many won't and therefore won't see the Trading threads. The Trading threads will receive less exposure in this setup.

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Post by Hunt_and_Annoy » Sat May 21, 2005 12:29 am

ok, sounds good, but I still like the nerfHQ rules more.

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Post by SSCBen » Sat May 21, 2005 10:43 am

NerfHQ's rules in my opinion are too much. I don't think that it really makes much of a difference - have we ever seen a forum member outbid someone because the link was posted here? I can't recall a single time. Maybe on a more popular forum we will see that problem, but we are yet to see it here.

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