Mission for a better K-mod

Threads about water gun modifications.
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SSCBen
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Mission for a better K-mod

Post by SSCBen » Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:41 pm

Again, this is another pre-released article. I think it would be nice if I released this one earlier. I wrote it quickly, but the point should get out easily.

For a while this summer, the forums were bustling with new guys, and what they mostly had on their mind was the K-mod... but they either didn't get it, posting a legitimate question, or they made a new "landmark" or a "revolutionary number of balloons." By that I mean, they went overboard.

Simply put, the K-mod originally never was meant to be what some do today. People have gone overboard. Some say that XN only used 45 balloons on his K-mod, just like I did on my 2700. At the time of writing the first K-mod article, most people who have K-modded (the elite few who did), had used around 60 balloons. Then they were known as "very skilled" not because the modification was hard. No, anyone can K-mod. This is proven by the large number of people who have. K-modding, check valve freezing, and the like, were only "hard" modifications because they were not very well documented at all. That's right, it took until SSCentral came around to document those mods well, with pictures. It really was quite a secret. Nothing had come close in the amount of skill required. Today we are beyond that, with well documented guides on those modifications, however there still are only 3 on check valve freezing and 2 on K-modding at the time of this writing.

When I released my K-modding and check valve freezing articles, it was winter so no one really started doing anything just yet. However the summer after was when everyone starting going overboard. Thinking they could be better than others, and wanting the best and most powerful soakers, people starting raising the number of balloons used during K-modding. I even remember a topic about a 100 balloon K-mod, and I was furious. K-modding has been idiotized. It never was meant to be what it is now.

When you increase the thickness of your CPS chamber, you also are decreasing the capacity of it. It's true, all that rubber takes up space. You with your 70 or 80 balloon K-mod have a much smaller PC. Some will say this is an advantage, increasing the number of shots per tank, but that is an incomplete assement if you ask me. Yes, it will increase your number of shots per tank, but you also have to remember that this is CPS. You don't need a full shot to get full range. You could have a million 2 pump shots, and they all would have about the same range, but extremely short shot time.

What I am proposing in this article is a new "landmark" or "revolution." Unlike the "revolutionaries" of the past, I propose different methods. We must improve the K-mod. It has it's big plus (and it's big), but what about the problem? Smaller PC size is not a good thing in a CPS gun. The large the PC the better here. To do this, we have 2 options:
  • Do PC expansion mods
  • Make new methods that take up less space
King Soaker at the SSCentral forums has done the first spherical PC expansion mod. He now has a considerably larger PC on one of his hundreds (yes, hundreds) of CPS 21000s.

My other idea is the hard way... but it should be the next revolution in modding. We must find balloons with more resistance, that are thinner. That would be truly important in our mission for a better K-mod. Another idea I had was some kind of "chemical bath" for our CPS PCs and balloons, there must be a chemical that makes rubber more resistant.

Whenever these theories become reality, this article will be updated, or more likely removed. Our mission for better soakers will never end, there always are improvements even in a seemingly perfect system. Keep thinking, and the next revolution will come soon.
Last edited by joannaardway on Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NiborDude
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Post by NiborDude » Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:36 pm

I had an idea where we use "industrial" rubber bands that are 20 times stronger than normal ones. I ha another idea of putting a PC ontop of the PC, Although I doubt it would work. And about the amount of balloons and stuff used on the PC, I wanted to see how many balloons you could put on until the power started going down again. So I could find the optimal amount for my K-mods.
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<span style='color:EEF2F7'>Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! -Leonardo Da Vinci

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:45 pm

Umm, there is no limit to the power you can add with a K-mod. Despite what BlueSmudge said at ST, you can add as much power as you want. There is no optimal number of balloons.

I doubt rubber bands would work. However, if we could find a better balloon for this (what my idea was), that would be great. Blaze said he used pearlized (sp?) balloons and he thought they had more resistance. There likely are other options. I want to start a global search until we can find the best material for modding.

Imagine a K-modded gun where you only have to put on 20 layers to get the same power as 80, and the balloons took up the same amount of space as 20... that is what I'm talking about. We can achieve this goal.

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BlueSmudge
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Post by BlueSmudge » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:22 pm

First off. awesome article. I have always been against the 21K with so many balloons. (Since I modded one myself.) And I put a similar article type deelieo on ST Forums. Finnaly people will understand it coming from you. I'm trying to inuendo towards dux. :P .
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Post by BlueSmudge » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:29 pm

Sorry for the double posts, but here is my article(post) from soakthis. It has similar thoughts.

It seems that 21K's are all the rage now. I finnaly decided to preform the mod myself, and after 75 balloons, tried it out. The results were ok. And the range around 55 feet. I Don't see what the big deal is. Maybe I'm spoiled with a APH that shoots 48' and a amazing stock 1500 that shoots 50' but why sacrafice your shot time for a few more feet and a bunch of shots per tank. It may be the fact that 2100 and 4100 are the best weaponry readily available to the masses, or that all these crazy modders havn't seen a date when a CPS 1000 was on the Toy's R Us shelves. But back in the day (not really my day, although I have seen and bought that CPS 1000 on those very shelves) people didn't mod their guns. And they were just as happy. Ignorance is bliss people, and the fact that the CPS line was readily available... maybe we are the ignorant one's. Thus reversing that famous saying, because I am not experianceing bliss with a 21K. I experiance bliss with the stock power of a CPS 1500, coming close to the range, and way exeeding the shot time of a 21k. I Don't want a high maintenace gun, which I feel having the potential with this waste of 75 balloons.
I'm not trying to say that the 21k is bad. Perhaps it would make a good beginners weapon. (in use not modding) Although... It doesn't really preform well anywhere. Many would say sniping.. but that feild is now being replaced by the WBL (at least for me). Besides the 2100 is a great gun stock. Who needs the addicting power of a 21k, or any k-modded gun for that matter? Its not the bruise on your shoulder that wins the war. Its the soaking wet shirt of your enemy.

Note: I know there may be a lot of argument with the stuff I said. Im sure some of what you say is true, so go ahead. just let me say this:
1.)It's light. Good, but I would rather carry a XP-310. Its light because it has a small PC and a small reservoir.
2.)The output is great, but you Don't need that kind of output in such a small shot. In a 1HK it won't help cuz you already hit them, and in a soakfest, wet is wet. You Don't need extra water per square inch. A stock CPS 1200 or 1000 would work much better, for the output is suficient to the size of the gun. Plus they have more shottime, and a larger water supply.
3.)The fact is, 60 feet is not much more than 50 feet. Although it takes a lot to gain an extra 10 feet of range, you can gain it a lot esier by taking a couple steps forward. Once again, Its not worth the lack of shot time.
4.)Lots of shots. Simple, you get more shots because there is so much less water in every shot. Why pump for every second? Why not pump once for 4 seconds?
5.)Track pump. Track pumps are nice. But I prefer the super smooth and fast action of a untracked pump. Besides, the only advantages of a track pump can be fixed with my pump reinforcment.
6.)Few pumps. Once again, this is because there is almost nothing to fill up.
7.)Perfect for mobility and can be a heavy cannon as well. 1/2 true 1/2 BS. Yes it is good for mobility, I'm not going to argue with that. Heavy cannon? Over my dead butt. A 2100 is not a heavy cannon. You will see what a heavy cannon is. Go here(look in the tech section for "mini project").
8.The ideal gun for a guerilla tactic team. Sure

Double Note: I know the specifics of this are about the 21K since thats what most people go crazy with. But just think of it generally.
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DX
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Post by DX » Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:52 am

I have no intention of starting another argument-war about BS's article on ST, so I won't rebuff any points. It is, however, nowhere near impartial, so keep that in mind when you read it. Anyway
Umm, there is no limit to the power you can add with a K-mod. Despite what BlueSmudge said at ST, you can add as much power as you want. There is no optimal number of balloons.
IMHO there is an optimal amount and that you can't keep piling on power. The balloons nearly fill the pc at 90 or more, it can hold only about 9 pumps=less power. If you take off the pc or overpump the gun, the pressure will blow a crack between the pc and nozzle. Don't do it. It's not worth it. Don't push the limits. Anyway I do hate putting on so many balloons, if a material could be found where 20 is equal to 80 as Doom said, that would be revolutionary. Pearlized balloons might add a bit more resistence, but they are expensive, like $10 per bag compared to $4 per bag of regular 12'. The 2100 mark 3 actually sports a 30x, you can untwist the nozzle to reveal it. However the stream shoots out like a fan burst, if there was a way to better laminate it, that would be awesome. Nibor tried to put a tube on the end and that didn't work.
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BlueSmudge
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Post by BlueSmudge » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:11 am

Your like.. half right. And you made the same misteak I did Originaly,
This is CPS, so the power is constant. A smaller space to expand doesn't make less power really. That is up to the point where the PC starts already touching the PC case, and can't expand at all.

I hope this is what you mean by power. I.e range and output. I Don't consider shot time power.
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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:04 am

The 2100 mark 3 actually sports a 30x, you can untwist the nozzle to reveal it. However the stream shoots out like a fan burst, if there was a way to better laminate it, that would be awesome. Nibor tried to put a tube on the end and that didn't work.
That is far from a 30X, more like a 20X, but probably less.
Anyway I do hate putting on so many balloons, if a material could be found where 20 is equal to 80 as Doom said, that would be revolutionary. Pearlized balloons might add a bit more resistence, but they are expensive, like $10 per bag compared to $4 per bag of regular 12'.
Umm, that wouldn't make it any more easier because each balloon will be harder to get on. You have to consider that.

http://www.balloons.com/contact.htm

I'll be contacting this balloons website later today. Wish me luck.

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RacerSoaker445
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Post by RacerSoaker445 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:51 pm

Complements to both of you on those great articles, I enjoyed reading them.

I once had an idea to make a spherical PC into a clyindrical PC, using a barb, latex tubing, a PVC elbow, and a barb.
I don't check this forum anymore.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:38 pm

Okay, I've emailed the balloons.com people. Should get a response within the next day or so. I'll post if I get anything helpful.

I should also say, they have some deals there. 100 12" latex balloons for only $7! That's a great price compared to what I payed.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:03 am

I'm bumping this to prevent it from going under.

I have not recieved an reply back from the balloons.com people. I'm thinking they just ignored my email. Well, I'll have to look myself I guess... I suggest some other people do to, we might find what we a looking for.

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Super Sonic
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Post by Super Sonic » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:57 am

If enough people email the baloon.com co. I'm sure one of us will get an answer. This may sound fairly stupid , but, would a whoopie cushion work?
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Crashdummy
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Post by Crashdummy » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:30 am

I doubt a whoopie cushion would work. They don't have a lot of elasticity and they break easily as they are made cheaply.

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RacerSoaker445
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Post by RacerSoaker445 » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:04 am

Well, it seems I will follow through with my CPS conversion mod, I have plans, now I need the parts...

Off to find my 2100 in the basement.

And... Post #700!
I don't check this forum anymore.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:12 pm

Originally posted by Crashdummy@Sep 16 2004, 11:30 PM
I doubt a whoopie cushion would work. They don't have a lot of elasticity and they break easily as they are made cheaply.
Plus they are way too big. A whoopie cushion also would be way too expensive for this project.

I still have got no reply back... I'm wondering if they even check that email. Anyway, I was looking around, and I think we might be able to buy actual latex and possibly dip a chamber in it? That might work, I'll look into it.

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