New and first APH

Homemade water gun threads that are notable.
Tyler
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New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Fri May 29, 2009 6:15 pm

Hi Everyone,
I found this site last summer but haven't been on it since recently. I am a homeschooled 17 year old and the reason for interest for water guns is that our church as an once a year 'water day' with a water war.
I just finishing up my first APH from Ben's article. (Thank you for putting that up Ben)
I had Monster XL I got last fall from a yard sale for 8 bucks but then sold it on ebay since I wasn't to interested then to keep it. Back to the APH.

It has two PC's but slightly shorter that the model in the article. So far with 3/8 nozzle I get 50 ft, and 1/4 nozzle I get 45 ft. I have to remeasure to make sure though, but is there any way to get a little better range?? When I get a camera I will try to post some Pictures.

Also a question on the 'Super-CPS" gun. How long is the shot time on the various nozzles, is it better than the APH since its CPS?? And what things have been improved on the design than what is on the article.
I read somewhere about layering the LRT with inside diameter of the larger one being the outside of the smaller one.

Well hopefully this is in the right forum. :)

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cantab
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Re: New and first APH

Post by cantab » Fri May 29, 2009 7:16 pm

Tyler wrote:It has two PC's but slightly shorter that the model in the article. So far with 3/8 nozzle I get 50 ft, and 1/4 nozzle I get 45 ft. I have to remeasure to make sure though, but is there any way to get a little better range?? When I get a camera I will try to post some Pictures.
Precharge the gun - pump air into the PCs before pumping water. Possibly a slightly larger nozzle. The laminator device. Glycerin/glycerol in the water - but I wouldn't shoot people with that, it's safe but it might go sticky when it dries.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

Tyler
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Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:35 am

Re: New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Fri May 29, 2009 7:38 pm

cantab wrote:Precharge the gun - pump air into the PCs before pumping water. Possibly a slightly larger nozzle. The laminator device.
Thanks, I'll try pre-chargeing the gun. I was thinking about the homemade laminater, but what is the smallest nozzle it works with, does it work with the 3/8??

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C-A_99
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Re: New and first APH

Post by C-A_99 » Fri May 29, 2009 7:40 pm

I never bothered with Glycerin or any additives. There are usually better ways to improve performance.

One way that would help is to find a better nozzle. The typical endcap nozzle gives terrible stream turbulence when not drilled properly, and even when drilled well, its still not that good. Instead, you can use hose barbs or as I prefer, a water balloon filler nozzle.

Most water balloon packages come with the nozzle, making them pretty cheap to obtain, and if they're not made smoothly, you can drill them out and clean them up. The disadvantage is lack of flexibility. You can't make them smaller than the default 3/16" or so, and making them larger will eventually weaken the rim of the nozzle. But if you get a good nozzle, the lamination is very good, and of course, you can use it to fill water balloons. These nozzles should thread onto 3/4" male adapters easily. (more easily than what they were intended for - hoses)

Tyler
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Fri May 29, 2009 8:05 pm

C-A_99 wrote:I never bothered with Glycerin or any additives. There are usually better ways to improve performance.

One way that would help is to find a better nozzle. The typical endcap nozzle gives terrible stream turbulence when not drilled properly, and even when drilled well, its still not that good. Instead, you can use hose barbs or as I prefer, a water balloon filler nozzle.
)
That's funny. I tried a water balloon filler, I drilled a 1/4 hole in it as it was to small, but it was plastic and when I shot it water sprayed all over where it connects the 3/4 pipe. I have been thinking about a hose nozzle, we have a metal one someplace that twists open and close.

I think I need to make a better pump, because the pump in the article and the one with tape on both sides doesn't work well. The tape slides down the pump. So is the pump with cpvc glued on better??

Pre-charging the gun did get better performance. Thank for the tip.

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C-A_99
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Re: New and first APH

Post by C-A_99 » Fri May 29, 2009 9:14 pm

I got the same problem on one of my fillers. Turns out that the drill makes the nozzle very rough, which ruins the lamination. However, my other nozzle works perfectly and it hasn't been touched except to remove those little flakes you get from crappy plastic moulds.

I'm not sure what can be done about that though. But if the inside surface is smooth (i.e. the nozzle is not drilled at all), it should be much more laminated than a garden hose nozzle, whose twists and turns absolutely destroy the lamination. (though probably not as much as the rough nozzle does)

If you mean that water was leaking through the threading instead of being very poorly laminated, then you might not have threaded the cap on completely. The thread should be tight overall and should be straight on. If you can't get it to seal, then you can try teflon tape. (the stuff used for sealing threaded pipe connections)

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Silence
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Silence » Sat May 30, 2009 12:17 am

Use a hose barb or a metal pipe nipple with an inner diameter of about 3/8". A large, smooth orifice is your best bet.

Glycerin's no good if you actually want to shoot somebody with your water gun. Ben experimented with it for more range with Supercannon II, but he never shot anybody with it.

The laminator device is a good suggestion, and it's especially useful for larger nozzles. All it does is channel water through many small pipes, which correct the flow and stop turbulence. Using such a system may be a bit of a hassle, though.

Precharging won't really increase the maximum pressure – it'll just let you start pumping at a higher pressure. It cuts out the low-pressure part of the firing cycle, so you won't have to pump as much.

At any rate, it sounds like you have respectable range already. Let us know whether any of these tips works. :cool:

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cantab
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Re: New and first APH

Post by cantab » Sat May 30, 2009 12:25 am

Precharging will also mean the pressure drop over a shot is less though. It won't impact on peak performance, but it will make the whole shot stay closer to the initial peak.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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SSCBen
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Re: New and first APH

Post by SSCBen » Sat May 30, 2009 1:09 am

A bad pump will hurt the maximum pressure you could get. I tried to keep the pump simple and I had a lot of success with letting the wood expand to make the pump seal well, but it seems I'm one of the few. I'll see if I can find something else that works.
Also a question on the 'Super-CPS" gun. How long is the shot time on the various nozzles, is it better than the APH since its CPS?? And what things have been improved on the design than what is on the article.
The shot time depends on the capacity of the chamber. I have an approximate formula for water flow rate on this page in about the center. Divide the total water volume by the flow rate and you'll have the approximate shot time.

I had not taken any shot time measurements back then. I intend to in the coming months.

"Better" is also very subjective. What is better depends completely on what you want. A rubber CPS system might be less reliable than a simpler air pressure system because it can pop and requires replacement due to fatigue. Your fighting style might make the drop in pressure in typical air pressure systems insignificant because you only take burst shots and quickly repump to keep pressure high. If your fighting style prefers long shot times, a CPS would be better.

Tyler
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:10 pm

Okay, I made the new pump with cpvc on the dowel. It works much better, but only with one O-ring, having two or three didn't work too well. They just wanted to get all tangled up in each other when I tried to pump. There was enough space in the groove to, so that's not the problem. Takes between 40-50 pumps, not bad.

I also got some hose barbs as nozzels. Here are the results.
3/8 in. metal pipe barb-50ft.
1/4 in. plastic tipped barb with metal adaptor-45-48ft.
1/4 in. pvc cap nozzel-48-49ft.
3/8 in pvc cap nozzel-48ft.
1/8 Balloon filler, not drilled-minus 20ft.
1/4 Balloon filler-minus 45ft.

These are all measured around the last drop. So I can't get past 50ft.
I also put a handle between the pump and rest of the gun and did a camo paint job.
Later this week we should get our camera fixed, so then I will post some pictures.

At least it pumps now so I can test it. :)

Okay, after the wood exspanded so more on the pump and a few more changes my gun now has a new range.
With 3/8 barb nozzel-58ft. to the last drop!
With 1/4 barb nozzel-52-55ft to the last drop!
So I am pretty happy with this gun.
Last edited by Tyler on Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tyler
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:31 pm

So we had our big water war yesterday, we also had a smaller one last week. The APH has a really big imitation factor in the fights, but it also made me a prime target. But I can out range a CPS-2500 and a CPS-1000. We were playing get shot twice then go revive, or one bucket dump or one water balloon.
But I did get tired after a couple of hours with pumping and the weight of the backpack. Once the PC's got so filled with water there was no room for air, so then I had to drain them, that is after I figured out why my gun would only take 4 pumps until it was to hard to pump.

My friend got a CPS 1000 and shoots 47ft to the last drop, so I was thinking about getting one so that when I get tired of the big one I can switch. But I was also thinking about a splashzooka (no need to pump). And they are both 'smaller'.

Oh and by the end of the day there was several broken flash floods as well as a arctic blast and a Max-d 6000. So got some fixing to do, max-d type triggers are horrible!!

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C-A_99
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Re: New and first APH

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:39 pm

For the APH, you'll want to pump in air first. Unfortunately, I don't think a leaky pump can pump in air very well, but I'm not that sure since I haven't built an APH. I haven't been able to pump in air to a CPH as well as I have with CPS soakers though. If it gets really bad, you can always attach a bike pump to the nozzle (by a series of adapters) and pump in air that way, but if you accidently shoot the air out during battle, its gone.

One very important thing I was missing: silicone lube. Not only did the pump move faster, it actually sealed better. Lubing sluggish super soaker pumps also works pretty well in general, but if the pump is moving fine, lubing won't do anything or may even slow it down.

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Silence
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Silence » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:05 pm

I'm a little confused why overfilling the water gun made harder to pump. That does happen with "pressurized reservoir" soakers, in which you pump air into a tank that's already filled with water. But the APH uses a separate pressure tank. Maybe all the air drained out? That could happen if the gun was accidentally fired when upside down.

A Splashzooka is a fine idea if you have a spare hose or if you use C-A 99's switcheroo.

Anyway, thanks to you I'm itching for a (big) water fight. :)

Tyler
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Tyler » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:56 pm

I always use Liquid Wrench to lube the pumps.
I think what happen was just what Silence said, all the air got drain out.

One question, how far does the spalshzooka shoot?? Maybe I'll get some video up sometime of our water wars.

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Silence
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Re: New and first APH

Post by Silence » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:06 pm

iSoaker's review pegs the Splashzooka's range at 36 feet. That's about the same as some of the better soakers on the market.

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