Colossus, Flash Flood

Threads about water gun modifications.
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cobralex297
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Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by cobralex297 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:18 am

This is my first time on SSC in a while. I'll start by saying "Hi!" to everyone:

"Hi!"

Now, for business:

- I'm going to do a colossus mod this year. It's one of my resolutions. Not like... the serious kind that affects my life greatly, but it's one of the soaker-related ones that I'd like to keep.

I'm thinking that I'll start by doing one on a Flash Flood. My logic behind doing it on this gun is that they're plentiful, so if I mess up I can get another, and if I were to be successful, the benefits of increased power would be nice, considering the size of the gun.
Once I succeed on the FF, I will move to a 2500 most likely, but that's not to be worried about here.

The purpose of this thread is to ask two questions:

1. What types of performance increases would I see on a well-done colossus modification to an STE: Flash Flood? (Yes, I said STE.)

2. Would the Flash Flood be more difficult than other guns because of it's side and the modern-ness of it's release, or would it's size make it easier?

And I suppose one more broad request-

Any comments or general information pertaining to the above topic(s) would be gladly taken.
Armory:CPS1200,1500,2000,2100,2500,
2700,3000,SplashZooka,XP105,150,20,
215,220,240,270,75,90,ss30,60,XTC,
SC600,BigTrouble,PowerPak,TripleCharge

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:14 am

Welcome back to SSC. :)

If I didn't already tell you, the most comprehensive guide to it at the moment is at iSoaker: http://www.isoaker.com/underground/CPS4100i/cpsmod.cfm

With a few layers of bike tube, iSoaker added about 10 feet of range to his CPS 4100.
1. What types of performance increases would I see on a well-done colossus modification to an STE: Flash Flood? (Yes, I said STE.)
It depends on what modifications you do in addition. The normal nozzle can't be used for any serious soaking due to the small diameter of the tubes feeding it. The top nozzle has larger diameter tubing leading to it and thus can support larger nozzles. You'll probably have to convert the Flood nozzle to a normal nozzle with some sort of multi-nozzle modification (on our website as "Adding nozzle selectors"). I have an updated version of that guide on the new website, but it's not online yet.

I wouldn't expect much performance increase from the small normal nozzle due to it's small size.

Sadly, all modern water guns are bad candidates for modification. Another problem with the Flash Flood is its small pressure chamber. I mean small. There's about 5 inches of rubber tubing in there, which normally would expand to 15 or more inches in length, but they give it maybe 7 inches of space. That not only reduces capacity, but also performance. I've seen some interesting solutions to that problem. The two links below are ones that come to my mind off hand.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/soakermedia/ ... ic=351&hl=
http://z8.invisionfree.com/soakermedia/ ... ic=512&hl=

The top link I might suggest to see the pressure chamber. All that Some Guy did was remove the plastic pressure chamber case.

The second link is a little extreme. I would not suggest cutting the case away unless you had a good plan to cover it up. The pressure chamber ideally shouldn't touch anything foreign.

With a new optimized nozzle on the Flood nozzle, a light colossus of maybe 3 layers, and a PC expansion modification, I would expect at least 5 more feet of range if not more. In the world of modifications, no promises are made, but there's no reason those modifications would reduce performance.

When I say optimized nozzle above, I mean one that gets the best range. You can do testing of various nozzle diameters to see which one gets the best range.

If you do a heavier colossus with latex tubing and a disabled pressure relief valve in addition to the PC expansion and new nozzle modifications, you probably would get more range than the light colossus, at the expense of safety features for the gun. You do see diminishing returns from modifications too. Back in 2004 there was a heavy K-mod craze. I didn't go over 45 balloons myself, but some people went up to 100 looking for more power. Those extra 50 balloons didn't really improve performance much with a lot of disadvantages.
2. Would the Flash Flood be more difficult than other guns because of it's side and the modern-ness of it's release, or would it's size make it easier?
The Flash Flood isn't any more difficult to modify than others in my experience (which mainly has been limited to the similar Arctic Blast). In fact, from what I remember, if you want to disable the pressure relief valve, they colored that piece differently for you, so it would actually be easier to do. The only water gun you might have trouble with would be the Monster XL. I saw some pictures of the internals of one of those, and it looks complicated to say the least. It might be one of the best candidates for modification, but that's just speculation.

However, modifying will not have anywhere near as much benefit as would modifying a water gun like the CPS 2500 or CPS 4100. That's the main disadvantage.

All this might seem like a lot of information for you, so let us know if you have any other questions.
Last edited by SSCBen on Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cobralex297
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by cobralex297 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:40 pm

Thank you for the link to the iSoaker 4100i page. Although frequenting the underground, I had not seen that page- for the link to it is below the list of projects. I didn't notice it.

Also however all the information you have provided will be quite helpful, however I cannot take the time right now to comment on all of it, as I'm in class. It looks like as soon as I can get some LRT/Inner tubes, I will attempt this. Of course first I will try a normal, unmodified nozzle.
Armory:CPS1200,1500,2000,2100,2500,
2700,3000,SplashZooka,XP105,150,20,
215,220,240,270,75,90,ss30,60,XTC,
SC600,BigTrouble,PowerPak,TripleCharge

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:27 pm

Be sure to measure your range from that nozzle before doing the modification. As I explained above, the added velocity could increase or decrease range. If it increases range on the small nozzle, you might not have to do any other nozzle modification. ;)

Comparing before and after is important in modifications.

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:04 pm

Drenchenator backed off the Colossus guide, so I'm going to work on it now.

The first thing I tried to do was slide some LRT over the chamber of my Arctic Blast because that is the easiest way in homemade water guns to make the chamber thicker. But, it seems Hasbro has even caught on to that trick because the chamber is slightly too large for that. The OD of the CPS chamber is about 1 1/4 inches, whereas the LRT I have has an ID of 1 inch

Using bike tubes is possible and I'm going to try that for part of the guide.

For other parts of the guide I want to try a few new things out. Thinner LRT should be able to stretch over like balloons do in the K-mod. The LRT in Lowes usually is too thick for that job, so I'm ordering 20 feet of 1/32 inch thickness tubing to try layering with. I might be able to get 40 or more layers from that.

One thing I also want to try (perhaps not at the moment) is latex mold that can be painted onto chambers. Latex molds help make a lot of props and latex clothing, so it is relatively common. I'm interested in seeing whether or not painting latex onto something will work well. The problem would be making the latex even, but any thickness is attainable without much effort.

I'm also going to modify the burst nozzle to be a normal nozzle and do a PC expansion modification. These modifications aren't particularly hard, but they're very useful.
Last edited by SSCBen on Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by Silence » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:22 pm

Well, I'm not so sure Super Soaker changed the bladder diameter just to cope with modification...but I hope you get around it. It might even be possible to layer tubing inside.

Before you try using liquid rubber, you might want to let a thin strip dry to see how elastic it is. The rubber is used for coatings and the like, where elasticity and springiness don't even matter. The rubber could stay stretched or break rather than obey Hooke's law.

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:22 am

Yeah, well, the bladder being slightly too larger likely wasn't caused by that potential modification. That was a bit sarcastic, but not very obvious.
Before you try using liquid rubber, you might want to let a thin strip dry to see how elastic it is. The rubber is used for coatings and the like, where elasticity and springiness don't even matter. The rubber could stay stretched or break rather than obey Hooke's law.
Yep, testing will be necessary. I've been looking at this stuff for a while but never discussed it might. From what I know, most of the stuff is the same latex in LRT, so it should be comparable at the very least. But, as it requires drying, it might break instead of stretching.

I think a K-mod style approach would be best which is what I'd like to see with thin LRT. The K-mod is easy because it uses a lot of small layers.

I put one layer over my Arctic Blast's PC, added a nozzle selector, and made a new pump handle. I intend to add more layers, disable the PRV, and do a PC expansion modification. The few modifications I did were pretty easy.

I invented a new way to put LRT onto a chamber. I rolled up some 3 inch strips of LRT into a small donut. Then, with someone holding the pressure chamber, I stretched the donut like a rubber band and placed it where on the PC I wanted it. At that point I unrolled the LRT. This method was much easier than sliding tubes and it requires no lubrication. But, it does take some strength to stretch the donuts, so it might not be ideal. I'd like to think of it as another method of getting bike tubes over the PC.

The nozzle selector I added went over the old burst nozzle. Incredibly, a 1/2 inch male adapter fit over the burst nozzle tightly. I'll epoxy it on later, but as is I am sure it seals and works great. What an easy modification!

Next I am replacing the PC case with a piece of PETG tubing from McMaster-Carr. It has nearly the same exact dimensions as the original tubing, but it is longer. I intend to add a pressure gauge as well. This should be the first guide to PC expansion.

Disable the PRV for this water gun appears to be extremely easy. All you have to do is seal off a spot in the reservoir coupler. I want to do it for a guide only because it's slightly different than what we have on our current guide.

I also want to add the HydroBlitz valve assembly onto the article as the "Type C" valve setup. It's completely different than either Type A or Type B (how I categorized the valve setups) because of the dual-stroke pump. I'd like SSC to have a lot of information about modifying current water guns because they're most accessible to people. I don't want to support the limited water gun supply on eBay that will certainly dry up eventually.

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Silence
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by Silence » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:15 pm

Ben wrote:I invented a new way to put LRT onto a chamber. I rolled up some 3 inch strips of LRT into a small donut. Then, with someone holding the pressure chamber, I stretched the donut like a rubber band and placed it where on the PC I wanted it. At that point I unrolled the LRT. This method was much easier than sliding tubes and it requires no lubrication. But, it does take some strength to stretch the donuts, so it might not be ideal. I'd like to think of it as another method of getting bike tubes over the PC.
Actually, I think somebody mentioned that in the "Colossus Pointers" thread a while ago. I'm only wondering what the largest thickness of tubing can be while keeping the method practical. (Although you're trying to avoid large thicknesses anyway...)

You might want to mention somewhere that increasing the power of a diaphragm chamber is nigh on impossible. After taking a look at my Orca's chamber, I've concluded it would be a lot easier to simply replace the chamber with a spherical one than to modify it.

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:36 pm

Now that I'm looking at it, that method is in there. I guess it wasn't so original after all. Nonetheless, it's a great method that hopefully will be used more often.

I ordered some PETG tubing to do a PC expansion modification, and while looking at the tubing details online, I remembered that PETG is transparent, which is good because you can see how full the chamber is. I don't have to cut anything into the chamber to make a gauge now. :)

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SSCBen
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by SSCBen » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:49 pm

When I bought the PETG tubing, I also bought some small about 1/4 inch ID latex tubing to try to colossus with. That was a bad idea. 1/4 inch is way too small. I think I'll have to get something with a larger ID before trying this idea again.

I also had another possible idea for Colossus where you buy latex sheets, wrap them around the tube tight, and then somehow attach the ends of the sheets. It won't expand at the point on the bottom, but everywhere else it will. I don't know how to attach the latex to itself aside from some sort of clamp. This idea is worth investigating.

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Hunt_and_Annoy
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Re: Colossus, Flash Flood

Post by Hunt_and_Annoy » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:02 am

One thing to be cautious off with the FF: the trigger breaks easily, I've been gone a while so I don't know if SS has fixed this yet, but I ran into that problem. So if you intend to do heavy modding be ready to fix your trigger, or your gun which you put all that work into will be dead. (Not sure if this was already mentioned, as I merely skimmed.) I have some comments on PC expansion, but I will hold them until I see how it has progressed while I was gone.

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